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giving a shit about “upvotes” seems like such a reddit thing to do.
I’m here for replies and conversation and yes…sometimes getting into arguments with dickheads (and…I’ll be honest…sometimes being said dickhead when I’m having a bad day)
I don’t actually care how many internet strangers are giving me made up internet points or not. It’s always just seemed to me to be vacuous and silly as something to “chase”
Best thing about this place is you can remove karma entirely from your user experience. I don’t see any count at all
reddit now will monitor upvotes in thier filters, too much too fast would result in a probably shadowban/permaban, because it assumes you are botting.
Upvotes are a means to an end for site visibility though, which is required to attain conversation in most cases.
I get that. I just mean that I don’t spend time trying to tailor an answer to try to get the most number of upvotes. I’ll say what i want to say, and if people want to upvote me for it or downvote me for it makes no difference whatsoever.
its how you know if ppl understood your point
Not always!
I much prefer the technical architecture of Lemmy over PieFed. I understand the qualms with the core developers, but it feels dirty to move from Rust to Python.
Thats fair, but I don’t make exceptions for that alone. We’re talking about advocates of widespread war and dictatorships.
I think from the start, the very beginning, Lemmy had bots doing 20 to 40 upvotes on brand new posts spouting Russian Propoganda.
Its really trivial to set up in decentralized networks like this.
Thanks for this post. Found my way into a PieFed account because of it. I find the user experience to be much more pleasant indeed. Especially for finding communities across instances and searching for posts/comments in general.
Welcome! Feel free if you have any questions, there’s !piefed_help@piefed.social
I like being on lemmy and I’ve managed to find piefed instances I have subscribed to so they’re part of my feed, but can anyone tell me if it’s possible to view piefed instances in my “all” view that I’m not subscribed to? I want to be seeing eveeeerything! Thank you!
It is possible. Piefed and Lemmy federate together.
I feel like they should appear automatically in that case, but they’re not.
Piefed communities are less active, and less likely to trend generally.
Ah OK, maybe that’s it - thank you!
Also, “all” is not all. It’s only the communities that others on your instance have subscribed to.
I realised actually that when I search through my federated instances list, not a single piefed instance appears… :/
need to make sure you have selected All when searching. I find piefed instances occasionally, like the TV & movies ones are pretty active I think.
Is there an iOS app for PieFed?
I suggest Thunder or Voyager on Android, and I know they both have an iOS version. Here is more info about PieFed apps: https://piefed.social/community/fediverse/wiki/piefed-app
Awesome, thanks
Wait we’re old now?
Isn’t the average age here like 40?
Lemmy is fine though what are you on about
Well, it works. But Piefed is developing more features quicker atm.
Piefed uses Python which is faster for development but the language is slower. Lemmy is built on Rust. I appreciate some features Piefed has but I do wonder about its scalability.
but the language is slower
it really depends what’s the metric. Most web server stuff is IO-bound not compute-bound so Python can actually be faster than Rust.
I thought Rust was faster for basically every metric?
The entire advantage of Python is supposed to be ease of development, in exchange for slower code execution. It is especially bad in terms of multiprocessing, which Rust is great at.
As I severely lack expertise on back-end development I asked for clarification to the forbidden oracle (AI) but it also told me that Rust is faster. I am not sure whether you feel like debunking an AI comment but if this is false I would love to hear why because from my current understanding Rust is always faster (for back-end development).
AI response
That statement is technically false, but it contains a grain of practical truth that often confuses people.
Here is the breakdown of why that statement is misleading and where the misunderstanding comes from.
The Verdict: False
Rust is almost invariably faster than Python, even in IO-bound tasks.
If you have a web server handling 10,000 concurrent connections that are all waiting on a database (pure IO-bound), the Rust server will use significantly less RAM and CPU to manage those “waiting” connections than the Python server.
Why the statement is wrong (The Technical Reality)
The argument assumes that “IO-bound” means the CPU does zero work. That isn’t true. Even in an IO-heavy application, the application server must do the following:
-
Event Loop Management
The server has to track which connections are waiting and which are ready to resume.- Rust’s async runtimes (like Tokio) are incredibly optimized and have near-zero runtime overhead.
- Python’s
asyncioloop has significant overhead because it is still running interpreted Python code to manage the tasks.
-
Serialization/Deserialization
When the database replies, the server receives raw bytes. It must turn those bytes into objects (JSON parsing, ORM model instantiation). This is CPU-bound work.- Rust does this near-instantly.
- Python is notoriously slow at object instantiation.
-
The GIL (Global Interpreter Lock)
Even if your code is async, Python can only execute one bytecode instruction at a time per process.- If 100 requests come back from the DB at the exact same millisecond, Python has to process them one by one.
- Rust can process them in parallel across all CPU cores.
Where the statement is “Practically” True (The Grain of Truth)
The person making that statement is likely conflating “faster” with “indistinguishable to a human.”
If a database query takes 100ms:
- Rust overhead: 0.1ms → total response ≈ 100.1ms
- Python overhead: 5.0ms → total response ≈ 105.0ms
To the human user, 100.1ms and 105ms feel exactly the same.
In this specific context, you could argue that Python is “just as fast” as Rust because the bottleneck is the database, not the language. But it is incorrect to say Python is faster.
The “Fediverse” Exception (Why it matters for PieFed)
The statement “web servers are IO-bound” is often true for something like a simple blog.
It is less true for the Fediverse.ActivityPub (the protocol PieFed and Lemmy use) involves two things that are heavily CPU-bound, not IO-bound:
-
JSON Parsing
Fediverse servers throw massive JSON blobs at each other constantly.- Python is slow at parsing JSON compared to Rust.
-
Cryptography (RSA Signatures)
Every time a server sends a message to another server, it must cryptographically sign it (HTTP Signatures). Every time it receives a message, it must verify the signature.- Rust handles crypto operations natively and extremely fast.
- Python relies on C-extensions (like
cryptography), which are fast, but the overhead of calling back and forth between Python and C for every single request adds up.
Conclusion
The statement is false.
- Rust is faster at raw execution.
- Rust is faster at handling high concurrency (even IO-bound).
- Python is only “faster” in one metric: development velocity – you can write the code faster in Python, but the code itself will not run faster than Rust.
No, python can be incredibly fast for IO when scaled properly.
You generally don’t run a single process or even program for serving websites. There are task queues, callbacks, microservices etc so the bottleneck is almost never the programming language itself but the tooling and Python’s tooling for web is still miles ahead. Thats why big project ship more Django than Rust and all AI training is running on Python not Rust etc.
Don’t get me wrong Rust is a brilliant language but Python can often be better.
Finally you can outsource high performance tasks to Rust or C from within Python rather easily these days.
Python is an interpreted language, which is fundamentally always slower than a compiled language like Rust. However the main performance bottleneck are actually sql queries, and I believe we make a lot more effort to optimize them compared to Piefed.
That makes sense to me logically. Are there advanced caching techniques being deployed? I’m really curious about this.
I thought the biggest problem for Python would be the GIL as it cannot share memory between processes and therefore needs to do use a database or other tool to share between them. Though in hindsight most web related services probably use databases to read and write data and this do not work out of shared process memory.
Threading from a single process is just a bad scaling strategy anyway so GIL is rarely an issue so you’re right most big web stuff does indeed use a database/queue/cache layer for orchestrating multiple processes.
-
So we should all just jump? Meh. Lemmy 1.0 is releasing soon which should help quite a bit.
AFAIK the two can federate with eachother so I’m glad we have both.
Thesis: Lemmy is better!
Antithesis: Piefed is better!
Synthesis: Bitch, they’re federated??
FUCK YOU HEGEL STOP FOLLOWING ME
Not necessarely that’s the beauty of the fediverse. You can enjoy PieFed growth and all it’s content but stick on Lemmy if you don’t feel like moving.
I vote use both
No we are a long way off from a 1.0 release yet.
Lemmy still has a bigger user base doesn’t it?
Well yes, but you can interact with lemmy on piefed.
If it’s true It’s the main reason to not even think to use piefed.
Not if you want to make use of some of Piefeds tools.
I have to check if Voyager iOS supports it
It does
I mean, I am reading this on PieFed and I do see your comment just fine. As you see mine.
Why is that a reason not to use PieFed? You can obviously just block all instances that run on Lemmy if you somehow don’t like their users!
Ok sorry, I just misunderstood. I thought you couldn’t read lemmy from piefed at all.
The whole point is to not have a centralized system. Development is also part of that, so providing multiple front ends for the same community also works towards that goal.
Doesn’t matter to me, I’m still using the old reddit theme on .world and that’s what I want to keep using.
Piefed or Lemmy, it’s the same content, so you’re arguing about either UI or philosophical differences (Lemmy devs are tankies or whatever).
I’d consider Piefed if they had an old reddit UI available, but that’s never gonna happen and I absolutely cannot stand either Lemmy’s or Piefed’s UI.
Oh, I had made one for quokk.au a few months ago. It got lost during an update as I didn’t bother to save it, I can probably whip another one up this weekend if I remember.
Edit: This was a wip screenshot I took. It was never 100% the same, but yeah.
Cool, well let me know if you do, I’ll join up. I’m sure if you do there would be several dozen people who would be thrilled! 😂
It looks great to be honest
I’d consider Piefed if they had an old reddit UI available, but that’s never gonna happen
Why would that never happen?
Well, for one, the old Reddit interface’s appeal is fairly limited in general. Most people use apps anymore, I feel like in general desktop users are not catered to even in default interfaces. Of people who do use the desktop, more of them are likely to be new(er) Reddit users who probably find the Lemmy/Piefed default UI to be superior to Reddit - but the pool of people who prefer old Reddit is dwindling, which doesn’t usually lead to continuing support of things.
As it stands, few Lemmy instances have it and in any case it feels pretty fragile. It has broken a couple times and I think been fixed, but this has led instances to drop it altogether (dbzer0 used to have it, for example, but the lead said it was too much of a hassle and its devs weren’t responding to his questions).
I’m fairly worried that 1.0 is gonna break it, tbh. It never gets any updates that I have noticed, and its functionality is a bit all over the place.
Well no, it’s not just UI. Piefed has more features than Lemmy right now.
Fair enough if you’re tethered to lemmy due to an old-reddit style UI, but it’s not purely rooted in UI and ideology.
Yeah, sorry you’re right, like being able to get feeds for small communities, and that sort of thing. But all the actual content is the same, is what I meant. Piefed doesn’t provide any content that you can’t get on Lemmy, just a different way to view it (UI) and organize it (features).
It does have polls. Those are not visible if you use Lemmy, right?
It will also add support for viewing microblogging posts (a.k.a. Mastodon) sometime in the next year. Obviously, that’s still content you can see all of if you use both Mastodon and Lemmy, because Mastodon supports polls as well.But PieFed is the only one that shows both everything Lemmy shows plus the polls.
Lemmy is fine though
except crazy authoritarian tankie leadership? It’s just a matter of time until one of them goes wacky (again) and brings down the entire brand.
It’s good to diversify here.
that is just one instance, in particular lemmy.ml. pretty much everywhere else they make fun of them.
I don’t know which part of Lemmy u talking about. What I get to see is posts and comments ridiculizing or even hating russians (as people) get hundreds of likes.
Good, that’s like being upset that nazi Germans are being hated on the telegraph. No shit Sherlock
Apparently you confused russians for israelis?
You didn’t get the memo? It’s fine to be the worst kind of bigot against hundreds of millions of civilian Russians, because of what their government does. They’re not like the population in western countries who have to be separated from the atrocities our governments have visited on the rest of the world for centuries. We are pure individuals, they are collectively responsible. So Americans can condemn Russian civilians as monsters, while sharing none of the blame for their own democratically elected government committing daily war crimes and atrocities.
Who cares if the devs are communists, worst comes to worst you can always fork it while you look for an alternative. Never has come to that though, and it doesn’t look like it will.
Forking rarely succeeds for big projects. Good luck finding new maintainer to spearhead entire code base and rebrand. Much easier to start with a more trustworthy base.
I don’t care that they are communists, I care about how they are assholes. I don’t owe assholes anything, certainly not loyalty. They are a toxic influence on the fediverse and should be marginalized. Maybe there was an argument that people should just let them cook when there was not alternative, but that is no longer the case.
Communists isn’t the problem.
Transphobic, genocide deniers are.
It’s just a matter of time until one of them goes wacky (again)
What happened?
That’s just the tankie triad. there are lemmy instances that aren’t run by nutters, feddit.uk for example
And my guy has almost 25 points
Okay but it is developed by authoritarian communists. I mean it doesn’t have to annoy you, but it definitely annoys me.
I don’t like the devs but at the same time it’s not like they wield much power over users outside of the flagship instance, lemmy.ml. That’s the nice thing about decentralized FOSS social media. Can even make a fork if they ever did something unpopular.
But they administrate their flag ship instance, which for a long time was the first instance new users registrated on, only to then see on what power trips the Admins are on. The missing separation of development of administration is literally the only critic point I have. If course, Lemmy is decentralized and that is a great thing. Over time, lemmy.ml already lost relevance and it will lose more as lemmy grows. But people tend to think “oh, so this is the official instance I better join there”, just to then face opinions promoting North Korea or denying Russia’s guilt in the invasion of Ukraine and so on. Check out the media bias in Lemmy.ml’s news communities, it is insane.
Check !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works for many examples.
Chill its a meme
This is the first I’ve heard of piefed, and so I’m just browsing the desktop site. It’s kinda jank, to be honest.
I looked at it when it came out. Seems ok to me, but there wasn’t a reason to migrate from Lemmy.
It has polls, it supports push notifications so phone apps can immediately tell you about notifications, you can write remarks about users that will be shown to you only next to the user’s name, and what I actually find the biggest usability improvement is that I can turn on notifications for any post or any community so that if anyone writes anything to that community, I get a notification. That’s awesome with groups that get like one post every two weeks but where those few posts are all very interesting!
Some people also like that you can group a bunch of communities into one feed that you can view as if they were together just one community. Meaning, if there are copies of the same community on five instances, you can opt to merge their content when viewed from your user account.
it supports push notifications so phone apps can immediately tell you about notifications
Nope, I’m out. Lemmys fine thanks.
Tbf I don’t think you have to have it on.
No worries :)
In what way does it feel jank, in your opinion?
I’ve personally been happy with it, and I would guess the maintainers are used to the way it works and might be blind to things you notice! But, there’s a real good chance that if you can point out specific details that could be improved, they indeed will be improved. At least they’ve done awesome job handling suggestions I’ve made!
I think just general UI stuff across at least the homepage
- Some buttons that wrap touch each other
- There’s a banner at the top (since I don’t have an account) that has weird, off-center margins
- When I first went to the site I guess the Explore dropdown didn’t load so it was an empty dropdown (though it’s now populated so that may have been a one off network request issue)
- If I have scrolled down the page a bit, every time I click an item in the main nav (like Explore) the page scrolls up by about 15 pixels for some reason
- The Piefed logo isn’t horizontally centered with the actual nav items so the text doesn’t line up correctly
This is obviously using Bootstrap to handle the UI, and that’s fine. I’m not knocking that necessarily. But it’s a little jank and rough around the edges. These are things I noticed in, like, 30 seconds.
And this isn’t to say that Lemmy.world is perfect or anything. And I don’t really use the desktop site for Lemmy. I just use Voyager on my pc. But even the Lemmy site feels a little more solid, if that makes sense (even if Lemmy.world is also using Bootstrap).
I was only able to reproduce one of these with some local testing (the not-logged-in banner). What browser are you using? As for the Explore dropdown (and most dropdowns in the web ui), they use htmx to populate, so if there is a network hiccup, then it will just show up empty. Lastly, I believe you on the buttons wrapping weird. I have caught and fixed a lot of those in my time contributing to piefed, so would always appreciate help identifying where it is happening.
A big priority for rimu when making piefed is to keep the request size small to accommodate very poor network connections. From talking with him, he has historically had to deal with extremely tenuous internet access in the past and wants to be able to still function in those environments (a user setting can also enable low bandwidth mode to disable things like images). That is just really hard to do using the javascript frameworks that a lot of modern web interfaces use these days. So, we have compromised and sprinkled in some interactivity where it makes the most sense using tools like htmx or vanilla javascript. However, it can make the site feel a bit like internet 1.0 at times.
With the piefed api maturing, there is now the option to simply use an alternative frontend (photon, blorp, etc.) or a mobile app (voyager, interstellar, etc.) instead. The main area of the site that we have not included in the api is the admin area, so managing things like defederations would still have to be done through the web UI.
Thanks for the feedback!
Incredible optimization! I don’t think Blorp will ever be able to deliver a web experience as low data as the official UI. However, if you download Blorp (or any of the other apps) then you no longer have to send frontend code over the network. The only data that needs to be downloaded at runtime is API requests. Suddenly the network usage looks a lot more similar to the official UI (though I should test to confirm).
Can I also say, as a somewhat normie human, that it’s called PieFed? I might need a little background information on this one.
Though I do participate in a group named Lemmy.
I believe the origin is a portmanteau of python (the language piefed is written in) and fediverse. The pie imagery is more for fun.
Fun fact, the dev server that lives at the bleeding edge of the codebase is called crust.
At least the Codeberg git repository is called pyfedi, which I think could be the original name of this? Py comes from the programming language used, Python. And Fedi is, well, Fedi :)
And then maybe PyFedi became PieFed because Rimu is from New Zealand and those DAMN KIWIS are SERIOUSLY MAD ABOUT PIES! 🤣
It has its rough edges, but I do like it overall.
Does it federate with Lemmy?
Yes.
deleted by creator
I thought piefed was a lemmy instance
Different software on the same protocol
That’s so cool. This place is so freaking cool.
It certainly has a lot of potential
No, it’s different software.
Oof. Lemmy as a decrepit grandma is a bit unkind.
Without their pioneering work in the early quiet days and absorbing the first wave of reddit refugees, PieFed wouldn’t have anything to glom onto and build from so there is a symbiosis going on.
The grandma was an exceptionally agile and good-looking woman in her youth, indeed! She was also pioneering a lot of things the following generations are now enjoying! But she’s nevertheless of the previous generation now.
Piefed was super slow it should be an image of a senior outrunning the kid with asthma.
How so?
Took more than 60sec to load images or video. Maybe the instance was at fault but my experience wasn’t great so far.
Took more than 60sec to load images or video.
That’s the instance one way or another. Media needs to be accelerated via content delivery network on all platforms or you get speeds of the web in the 90’s. You can get by pretty easily with a handful of users, but most instances get hamstrung pretty quickly if they don’t offload the media to a caching service.
The instance that runs the piefed acct I frequent has database problems, I’ve only put a few dozen comments in there, and loading my profile takes almost a minute. Loading actual media there is fine through.
It kills me because the one thing I do is go back to things I’ve posted and look for more conversation on posts that people make on my posts.
Early lemmy ran into a lot of scale issues too until everyone started running CDN and moving their job runners and database off the webserver and in some cases run multiple servers with a load balancer.
What’s the difference? Can I see piefed communities through Lemmy? Or do I need a different account and/or app?
Piefed has more features and different devs. From an user perspective they’re not very different.
How different are the devs? Is it just a fork where they regularly pull the upstream lemmy? Or ground up?
This account is getting pretty old and about due for a nuking and dessalines seems to be speedrunning being the tankie musk (right down to surrounding himself with bot-friends). Lemmy is still good enough software but looking for an offramp if you catch my drift.
I snaked you on your drift and surfed my way over already. Sorry ☺.
PieFed main devs support human rights.
PieFed is not a fork of Lemmy. It is a different software, but able to share content with Lemmy using the ActivityPub protocol.
For more info: https://join.piefed.social/features/
Are there mobile apps for it as well?
I use Voyager, you can sign in with both Lemmy and Piefed accounts and switch between them easily.
Yes. Many choices of mobile apps:
Hmmm. I already use and like Thunder and it’s supposed to work for piefed. I’ll have to figure this out, because right now all I use is Lemmy with it.
Not sure how mature Thunder Piefe support is these days.
For alternatives: https://piefed.social/community/fediverse/wiki/piefed-app
Piefed is unrelated at all, afaik.
They’re a bit cavalier with development, though: when they recently rolled out the feature of posts having a ‘selected answer’ a-la StackOverflow, someone pointed out that the marker for the selected answer should be on the post’s data structure, not the comment’s, so a commenter can’t hijack the marker — but the developer replied that they already moved on from that feature and won’t be changing it.
Yes. Entirely different software. Different programming language and tech stack. Also different system requirements and feature set.
Not sure about the developer spirit. PieFed development has traditionally been moving crazy fast and it gets like several new features every month. I think that’s a matter of focus. It comes with consequences, though. But I think overall the project is doing a good job with trying to be compatible to other software. Prioritizing important stuff and doing the right thing. Sometimes some things get done, rather than be 100% perfect. But past experience tells me things often get fixed or changed around once necessary. Not sure if that’s a wise decision here. The JSON exchanged between the servers is probably extra work if changed around later.
I’d legit rather the software develop and occasionally spaff it up and break the server for a few hours every once in a while rather than the non-moving 5 year plans of Lemmy development.
Also, usually piefed.social is the only instance that gets hit with this as, being the flagship server - it takes the brunt of more ‘experimental’ features. Most other servers don’t upgrade to the latest iteration until they’re sure it’s not going to break them.
Good thing we have both development models and people can just pick what they like. I know which one I prefer. 😆
And seems Lemmy is approaching a release with their efforts of the last years as well, they’re at alpha.17 these days…No we are a long way off from a 1.0 release yet.
break the server for a few hours every once in a while
That’s not what botching the protocol does. It opens the way to mess up the posts that shouldn’t be messed up, until the devs get around to fixing it in the protocol and implement the fix on the server and all the clients change their implementation. By that time data on the posts can be irretrievably borked unless someone sits down and retroactively reassigns which answer is the the ‘selected’ one, which again might need an addition to the protocol because it isn’t a central database, except the dev also can’t actually unilaterally decide which is the ‘selected’ answer because the user might’ve changed the selected answer themselves.
Does this sound like ‘breaking the server for a few hours’?
This smells of fresh college-grad coding with people who can’t foresee how their programming decisions affect the software’s workings in the future.
Haha
I have 25 years of experience at this and am well aware of the tradeoffs I’m making.
We’re not building a space shuttle, here. Lighten up.
I’m speaking generally. I’d rather Piefed development speed and the side-effects that come with that than Lemmy’s stagnation.
You’ve spent 5 hours now raging against this “mistake”.
A mistake that you didn’t realize is only rolled out on their testing instance.
You have more than one dev stating they are aware of it and it’s on the list to be addressed later, despite claiming you had no way of knowing that. You do as of a decent number of hours ago.
You have another dev stating that this thing you think is a horrible development failure would require DB access to exploit in the way you hypothesized. Together with this only being in the bleeding edge test instance, this invalidates the overwhelming majority of your complaints.
And then you have the sheer balls to tell another commenter their comment was worthless, as it was too much speculation? Your entire fucking thrust is based off not just speculation, but a critical misunderstanding of the situation.
If you have the development background you claim, go make a fucking pull request. I normally hate that sort of shit, but after you’ve pulled the shit you’ve pulled in these comments, throwing your dick around like some sort of hotshot?
Put your money where your mouth is.
I’ve only got ten years experience, mostly in IT infrastructure admin/engineering, but one of the biggest lessons I learned early was to save my criticism until I actually understood what was going on. Another big one was to just not be a dick bag. And to apologize instead of doubling down when I was shown I was wrong.
I guarantee that if you bring this kind of attitude to work, the only reason you’ve lasted is because you’re on a large team. You’d be out in the first month at any of the (smaller) places I’ve worked.
things often get fixed or changed around once necessary. Not sure if that’s a wise decision here. The JSON exchanged between the servers is probably extra work if changed around later.
Exactly, changing a protocol is not like changing centralized functionality. Not only it introduces mess that could’ve been avoided and mandates some compatibility measures while every client picks up the modified protocol, but it also allows posts to be messed up while this is fixed — without a way to restore the data as it should be, because false data on the comments is indistinguishable from the user changing the selected answer.
Messing up or losing users’ data should be the biggest no-no in web programming, but some people are remarkably carefree about it.
It’s difficult to discuss development in public places like here. There’s always a hundred things on the backlog. People want this, other people want that and someone needs exactly the opposite if all of it. There are a a bazilion ways users can annoy each other and all of it needs fixing. Then a project needs to be stable and reliable. It also needs new features. Performance needs to be right… It’s a proper nightmare job to balance all of it and maintain a mid-sized project. On top of it people will feel entitled, send in security vulnerabilities, complicated stuff that needs review and messes with things, other devs want something to be cleaned up, changed around, want someone to write more or less unit tests… and that also needs time for a plethora of good communication. And then there’s the actual architecture design and coding, which isn’t easy to begin with.
I didn’t study the code. But I’d bet the representation in the database stays the same, no matter which way it’s phrased on transport. It’s some sql relation between answer and post either way. A UI will also want to know how to style a comment at the point it processes that comment, so it makes sense to have it there. On the other hand it makes more sense for the semantics to have it attached to the post. Then there’s who can edit it. We need to trust incoming notes from third parties anyway. And maybe admins or mods can change it as well. They might be on arbitrary instances. So I’m not even sure if it changes anything with security.
And then there’s always many ways to skin a cat in software development. We can have long meetings to write specifications. We can choose to be a bit more explorative and figure things out along the way. We can even choose to make mistakes and fix them later. I think that’s a great thing with computer programming. Fixing mistakes is usually very cheap compared to for example a mechanical engineer who maybe likes to avoid wrecking a $1m piece of equipment. But that also means software developers have the opportunity to work a different way. And there’s a time for each of the methods. The trick is to apply the correct one at the correct time. I really can’t make a good statement here, I’d need to read the code and judge based on all the nuances I just mentioned. It’s regularly not as simple as something appears from the outside.
Wow, that’s amazing crock of a shit of a speech you have there. You don’t know anything about anything, but you’re ready to pump out a whole pageful about it. It’s quite impressive.
You didn’t study shit, but you bet it’s all fine. You bet the database stays the same, and the protocol is all fine, and nothing is ever bothered by anything. It’s all some ‘SQL’ bullshit, why bother about it when smelly nerds can bother about it all they want, right? It’s just some ‘SQL’ fucking nonsense, it means nothing anyway. Just style the UI and process the comment, and it all goes away, you fucking nerd, why are you ever bothered about anything?
sniff
Oh maybe it might in fact make more sense to have it processed by the post instead of the semantics being attached to the fuck of the comment, what the fuck do I know. Just edit the fuck out of it, it makes more sense on the other hand. We need to trust processing by the semantics of the sense, why not. Who can edit it, incoming parties, yeah! Admins or mods, I’m not even sure.
sniff
Then there’s the skin the cat, we can have many long meetings, the specifications, choose a bit, make mistakes, what the fuck do I know. A bit more explorative, make mistakes, fix them, it’s all fine. That’s the great thing. Fixing mistakes. sniff That’s the great thing with programming. It’s very cheap compared to, uh for example to, uh a mechanical, who maybe likes uh to avoid. But that also means. The opportunity. There’s a time bang for each bang of the methods. bang
sniff
I really can’t make a good statement here. It’s regularly not as simple. The trick is to apply the correct one.
The Stack overflow function is, to my knowledge, only on the test instance currently.
I’m quoting the response from the piefed dev in the announcement thread that popped up in the feed on .world. So it’s not my monkeys as to whether it’s on the test instance, but the response is what it is.
the lemmy devs are commies
is that not the obvious thing
are the piefed devs commies too?
what is this, the 1950s?
To be clear: I don’t give a fuck if someone identifies as communist. I disagree (more in the vicinity of demsoc, personally) but people have had more impractical ideologies.
The issue is that dessalines et al are very much tankies. People who will say and do whatever it takes to say that china and russia are correct because both of those countries used to identify as communist (how long either actually was is up for debate). And that tends to manifest as actively supporting the invasion of Ukraine and the state sponsored ethnic cleansing by, among other horrors, rape of (among multiple ethnic groups) the Uyghurs
I think the registration process and “official” app made piefed a more welcoming enrollment for people who are just casual users. Like, I had to explain a lot of shit to get my GF signed up for Lemmy. My grandma could sign up for piefed without much guidance.
Piefed isn’t run by cringe tankies who have diminished the struggle of an actual revolutionary by soiling their namesake with the view from an air conditioned computer chair.
Also, piefed isn’t run by cringe tankies who call trans people bourgeoisie western pink washing, and then goes around begging for donations as if we owe them anything besides scorn.
In terms of what content you can see, the difference between Lemmy and PieFed is effectively the same as the difference between two Lemmy instances. As long as the instances federate with one another, it does not matter which platform you use. You can definitely interact with PieFed from Lemmy just fine. In fact, you are doing so right now! My account is on a PieFed Instance.
This meme is more making a joke about how relatively young PieFed is. Years back, a post to any community on the fediverse that got 20 upvotes was huge. But today, a post with 20 votes is basically nothing (depending in the size of the community). By the time PieFed came about, the fediverse was populated enough that a post with only 20 votes was nothing like a post with 20 votes in the olden days of Lemmy.
You can see lemmy communities on Piefed.
But you will need to make a new account on a piefed instance, same as you would moving to any other lemmy instance.
I thought we could easily migrate accounts between Fediverse instances and that that was a core feature of ActivityPub for preventing a single instance from dominating and effectively centralizing the Fediverse?
Does piefed not support account migration?
You can import your subscriptions, and communities can be migrated over - but I am unaware of an account migration function.
Hmm, only Mastodon is mentioned for this feature in the ActivutyPub spec… I’m not sure if it’s the only service that has implemented this fully or if it’s just the example used.
https://swicg.github.io/activitypub-data-portability/#move-action
That’s ashame, because account mobility is the most important tool for healthy decentralization. The reason Facebook or Twitter can “get away with” implementing such shitty policies and abusing their users is because the users are locked in, with a high cost to switching platforms.
The cost is highest for accounts like small businesses that live and die by social media marketing, once they have an established presence and successfully built a following on a platform, it is very risky for them to give that up and start over on a new one.
I imagine Rimu would need to work with Lemmy in order to bring in that kind of migration for accounts where the post-history is completely redirected, but I doubt that’s gunna happen.
He addressed it in the interview on !piefed_meta@piefed.social
Long story short: migrating subscriptions and blocks are enough for the Threadiverse as your posts belong more to the communities where you posted than yourself
Yeah, I’d argue community migration is by far a more valuable priority than account migration.
Migrate is a strong word, more like you can copy your settings, it’s certainly not intrinsic to the standard either. Remember, your username includes your instance after all. I am not deeply versed but one of the better platforms was Mastodon and it was still limited to moving your settings and followers to your new account and setting the old one to forward. Posts weren’t reattributed or anything though.
The strength of the fediverse is how the data is duplicated and how it’s the sum of many parts, but maintaining an “identity” on the fediverse is still wobbly, some like that though, it leans into the privacy/anonymity side of things.
for you an average user you’re not going to notice much in difference. you’ll get more features with Piefed but otherwise you can still view and interact with each instance.
From an admin side/someone who runs their own instance Piefed is just so much better. lighter, easier to set up, run, and manage.
Basically there are no differences, sure piefed has extra features but if you’re a mobile user no client acturally supports them. Also piefed is newer, less stable, and gets updated more frequently (so the difference between instances is bigger)
The different features are the differences, and you can use them on the browser if the mobile clients are behind. Piefed is fine enough on it.
Its not that the mobile clients are behind its that piefed has no mobile clients whatsoever, just a bunch of Lemmy clients that also happen to support piefed.
The limit between being a Lemmy or Piefed client gets a bit more blurry over time.
@moseschrute@piefed.social , would you consider Blorp a client for both Lemmy and Piefed, or a Lemmy client that also also supports Piefed?
I would say Blorp is a client that started out as Lemmy, but is slowly becoming a 1st class PieFed client. I’m a bit of a perfectionist, so I’m hesitant to call it a perfect PieFed client until I add support for polls, events, and feeds/topics. I’m working on some of those features right now.
I already have support for post flairs, and I just added support for locking comment threads. Both of those are PieFed specific features.
Since PieFed is in its early stages, I’m able to collaborate on API decisions. As a more mature project, I’ve found Lemmy a bit more rigid with its decision making. But there’s a certain excitement I get working with PieFed. It’s so new and full of possibilities!
TL;DR If you use Blorp with PieFed, you’re gonna have a good time
Thank you very much, Blorp is definitely a great app!
No real difference in core features. Its all the extras that make me happy.
I have been really enjoying the scheduled post feature. I can set up my shitposts to be automatically posted at the optimal time of day. For English communities, I find that to be about 9:30 AM USA time.
I do the same with !peertube@lemmy.world so I dont flood the community every day with videos.
Another migration. I know I’m sure I’ll be told I’m a ding dong, but all these migrations are the reason why decentralized social media will never be popular. Some probably think that’s a good thing, but 90% of the posts here are the same person posting hentai.
What do you mean “another migration”? Piefed and Lemmy communities and instances can be viewed from both.
I’ll use the Casual Conversation community as an example. They started out on Lemmy.World. They had 6.7k subscribers. They moved to lemm.ee, which was shut down. Now they are at piefed. One of the biggest communities migrated multiple times and has lost almost 20% of the subscribers.
One could argue that this is the purpose of decentralized social media, but my point is that constant migration and evolution, while not exactly dubious, will keep casual users away.
Most of the initial communities made primarily on lemmy.world benefited from the initial flood of users joining from Reddit after the API fiasco. Most of them didn’t stick around - but their presence on as subscribers on those communities still persists. It’s a false number.
Subscribers aren’t a great metric to determine community viability in many cases.
And the current uptick in piefed is because it’s new tool in the block. It still remains to see if people stick around.
So, yea, we’ll see how that pans out.
Well I’m talking specifically about communities on the fediverse here as they move between instances, not piefeds local activity.
One of the biggest communities migrated multiple times and has lost almost 20% of the subscribers.
Subscribers are a poor metrics. Active users is much more relevant, and !casualconversation@piefed.social is as active as the previous versions used to be
That’s fair.
High-fidelity community migration (no loss of followers) is on my to-do list for the next release. It might get bumped to the release after but it’s on the agenda.
Now we’re talkin!
Yeah, I wish there was a good technical solution for this baked into the Fediverse. PieFed has some of that, you get some features for migrating communities there. But all of this is integral part of this place. We also have like 10 technology communities. It’s not obvious what to subscribe to. Some formed due to growth and changed dynamics. Some because someone was against AI and someone else pro AI, and they split off and made yet another community with the same name. None of that is intuitive to newbies. You can of course subscribe to all of them but then you’ll regularly get the same post 5 times in your timeline because it also leads to cross-posting and all kinds of things… This is by design, though. And it’s difficult to design online platforms to be easy to use, cater to all people, grant freedom to everyone… I think we still got some room for improvement 😉
I have been thinking about this a lot. When you search for “fediverse” you get multiple communities. I think it would have to come from an outside source, like a new site for instance, or maybe an app, but it would be nice if there was a way to just consolidate all communities with a particular name into one super community. I know that’s not how the fediverse works, but imo it should.
Piefed consolidates comments from crossposts : https://piefed.zip/c/space/p/771135/space-station-first-all-docking-ports-fully-occupied-8-spacecraft-on-orbit#post_replies
Once upon a time you needed GNUtella, freeseek, kaazaa, eMule, NZB, DirectConnect, FreeNet, and bittorrent. Give it time, if you can’t tolerate being an early adopter. You will find this pattern throughout life, not just on decentralized networks.
Those were different times.
The average Internet user is a phone user who only knows apps.
I would say centralization might be required to reach Facebook like sizes but I’m not sure that is a valuable goal.
The times change but technologies still go through the same lifecycles. Nothing wrong with waiting for things to mature, though I’d rather accept some rough edges than accept getting sold as a product.
What I meant more is less that the technologies change but that the users have. Users were more tech savvy by nessessity.
There are plenty of people online now who would never have made it before.
Yes? That’s arguably the Internet itself going through the exact same cycle. But it doesn’t change how the adoption cycle works or force software to magically be mature a decade early.
you can just block the whole lemmynsfw instance
I did. I still get weird posts from time to time from different communities.
i don’t think i’ll ever understand how people can get off to drawings…
I have a very specific fantasy that doesn’t happen in real life… yet.
does it involve a dragon fucking a car?
I have two very specific fantasies now.
I will never understand it, as it’s not my thing, but more power to them I guess.
The point of ActivityPub is that you don’t have to migrate your account to be part of any shiny new social media platform. You can just stick to lemmy and interact with piefed communities/posts/comments without even knowing about it, just like this post here (it was posted by a piefed user and you’re viewing it on lemmy).
I understand you don’t have to migrate your account. You do have to migrate the community though. Which caused a 20% decrease in members.
In an ideal world, and I know this is the end-game - Piefed does plan to support total community migration between instances. Ie a piefed.social community could move to piefed.ca and maintain all of its posts, comments and subscribers. Communities would be modular.
Lemmy wouldn’t recognise this though, and I doubt that would ever change.
At some point in the future I will also have time to implement community migration for Lemmy. In theory it’s not so complicated, but there are lots of other things to do.
Same comment, but from your instance : https://lemmy.world/post/39664704/20826464
One was after the other.
What you don’t like my furry feet fotos
pics?I don’t dislike them. I hate them. I HATE YOU
Can’t please everyone! But you’ll really, really please some of them
