Edit: I made a mistake, I meant to add Mailfence instead of Fastmail, but forgot to update both the icon and text
Hey everyone, here’s a follow up to my previous post, I tried to summarize all your suggestions and these are the options I have for the main Proton products I’ve been using.
I removed Bitwarden based on your feedback (basically they’re enshittifying).
I’m not including Tuta, because I dislike their UX/UI, also they seem to not apply their LLM policy to their own devs.
I’m not including Mullvlad, because of one of the founder’s donation to a far right political party in Sweden, said founder has a blog post to justify this, which links to another blog post where he claims to be a libertarian anarchist which is just another word for Ancaps which is a dealbreaker for me.
A lot of people recommended using one’s own domain for email stuff, I forgot to mention I do have a custom domain, which will make migrating a lot easier indeed. Just need to update my accounts credentials.
Let me know what you think!
Since you’re picking a new provider anyway, it’s worth thinking about how you pay. A card ties the account to your name even if the mail itself is encrypted. Tuta and addy.io both accept Monero, and Mailbox.org lets you pay by bank transfer without a card. For aliases, addy.io with any of those works really well.
Tuta had honeypot allegations. https://gizmodo.com/tuta-email-denies-connection-to-intelligence-services-1851022465
So, guys, I’ve had a pretty great experience with GMail, from a small company… they index the Internet, whatever that means. Anyway, the sign up is free and and I don’t have to bring a domain… again, not sure what that means, but it sounds nice.
It sounds perfect, I sure hope they’re not evil or something

It’s funny you should mention that, because they go out of their way to specifically say that they aren’t!
I believe 'em. Especially after they bought a co called “doubleclick”. Not sure what that is, but they probably invented double clicking with my mouse buttons. Or sth like that. No way an evil co would be giving us stuff like that.
“Don’t be evil” seems like an aspirational sentiment rather than a reflective one. Like an addict writing “don’t do drugs” on their todo list.
Guess they should have aspired harder.
I always felt it was just a company telling me to not be evil. Rules for thee not for me, if you will.
Also, the storage they offer increases constantly in real time. There is a counter on their page if you wanna check.
Do you have an invite?
Fastmail while an excellent product, is in a jurisdiction with “dubious” rules. I would give Tuta a second chance. Infomaniak is also a good alternative.
Tuta is going straight against their own policies on Ai, hard disagree on that 2nd chance. You might just as well do that with Proton then.
True, why not? it was clear that the people that work at proton were competent enough to raise the issue and make it a public discussion, I wouldn’t throw them away that easily.
That’s absolutely true
That’s my mistake, I meant to add Mailfence instead of Fastmail, but forgot to update both the icon and text
i had enough struggle to convince my friends to switch away from google, im sure as hell not getting them to switch again. especially not when i am the one paying for the family subscription
I think it’s fine. Proton is still better than big tech. I want to move away from Proton for myself but that’s because I am not tied to an address (custom domain) and am happy to do the switch. I would still encourage Proton over big tech for regular people. We do the best we can do.
I’m confused… If you’re the one paying for it, why do you need to convince them of anything? They can come along or pay for their own services.
it was unfortunately worded. the reason they switched at all is because im paying. if i stop paxing they will just switch back
That’s their prerogative.
Fastmail is in Australia. correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t the Australian government basically backdoor every product hosted in their country? wouldn’t that be terrible for privacy?
No backdoors that I’m aware of but they do comply with the law: https://www.fastmail.com/policies/transparency-report/
That’s my mistake, I meant to add Mailfence instead of Fastmail, but forgot to update both the icon and text
KeePass can do TOTP, it’s better to have a separate database for those for obvious reasons, though.
Caveat: Right now keepass doesn’t really like working with multiple vaults. We also need keepass app to realize that totp is in another
castlevault.
Just a question, is there anything wrong with just KeePass?
No, but you need to backup/sync it yourself
I meant non-XC KeePass. You have to back up XC manually as well. But I think I saw someone saying something bad about KeePass without XC or DX and I’m curious now.
KeePass is made with Windows in mind, so it might not have come across OP’s radar if they don’t use Windows.
I’ve tried running the OG KeePass on Linux but it’s not nice sadly… Prefer the UI much more then KeepassCX
KeePass is proprietary. KeePassXC is open source. I have experience with both and I find XC much better in many ways.
Thanks. I’m so used to KeePass that I just can’t get used to XC. I don’t like keeping the database open. I’m OK with XC on laptop with fingerprint reader, but on desktop, it just feels unwieldy. Also, I like to manually synchronize files between devices, because then they act as backup. And I can’t run syncthing at work.
But in that regard KeePass and XC work the same? Both just use the DB and lock if want them to lock…
I guess? Somehow i missed the autotype in XC before, maybe? I just checked it, switched to comapst mode and briefly tested and other than synchronisation of 2 databases, it ses to work mostly as I want to (better in some ways, maybe, more testing needed). And there’s Merge from database, which by the sound of it might do the synchronisation the way I want to. I will test it more! It looks like it might work for me too. Thank you!
I wouldn’t trust a proprietary VPN, so I’d remove Xeovo. As someone else mentioned, Obscura uses Mullvad servers as the exit node. Not recommending Mullvad is fine and I’d do it too, but then recommending Obscura is weird.
Xeovo appears to use WireGuard and OpenVPN. They don’t even seem to have their own client.
Why are you using the GOP logo? This isn’t an American-centric issue.
Just put a Swastika. That’s what he apparently stands for now.
@inlandempire@jlai.lu , I said I’d write about bitwarden and here I am. Trollaccount69: promises made, promises kept.
Bitwarden is good. People saying it’s bad are either mistaken from not reading news reports closely enough, completely unwilling to accept a company as opposed to a small open source project or don’t consider cloud services worthwhile when they could be self hosted.
I’ll start with the last one first.
I self host a lot of stuff. Many people have a little computer in the closet, some have mini racks, a few have full size frac racks. I have two full size racks in different physical locations separated by miles. The point of saying that is not to brag or flaunt undiagnosed mental illness but to make it 100% clear that I am not opposed to self hosting by any measure.
A few years ago I was in a natural disaster. It wasn’t predictable or common and while some of the conditions that precipitated it had a generous parry window the effects were outsized and still linger to this day.
My local server was rendered inoperable and my offsite was damaged beyond recovery. Conditions in the area prevented consistent access to the internet so my cloud backup was not an option. Afterwards I did not have power or Internet at either my home or offsite location for two weeks. Even in the case that I did, my focus was on keeping my family warm, fed and housed.
The experience immediately afterwards had a lot of what might get called second factors or one time tokens or just shit you gotta write down and every group involved wanted to mediate the process through their website or some other computer system not least of which is the us federal governments now monolothic login.gov (what a fucking name).
Maybe you see where I’m going with this.
If it weren’t for bitwardens ability to access secrets securely through a web browser on an untrusted computer I would have had a much different experience toting handwritten copies of important logins, passwords, tokens, codes and even just notes to remember in sweat soaked waterlogged pockets.
Bitwarden isn’t the only cloud password thingy that has that functionality but it’s the one with the longest history of dudes popping up to “well actually” out the way their website access works when someone says “browser? That’s not secure!”. So I’m not gonna waste your time with that. It is secure and you can do your own research and come to that conclusion yourself.
The point of writing all that is you probably would be what a disgusting race of people with bad teeth from an overcast island in the North Atlantic would describe as “proper fucked” in their nasty, brutish imitation of the English language if you couldn’t get to your selfhosted passwords. Imagine if that coincided with a bonafide cortisol experience.
Cloud services can be described as a lot of things. A safety net against local disruptions is part of that.
Alright working backwards from that mess, it’s fine to be skeptical of companies but they do represent stores of expertise and often act as the benevolent supporters of open source projects either through a direct relationship like Bitwarden, keeping the maintainers of an open source project employed so they can continue working on the project (often as part of their job responsibilities) like Bitwarden or even just using the profits to prop up the free side uh, like Bitwarden.
Off the dome, and I will not be looking this shit up, the first thing comes from people seeing some small indicator and freaking the fuck out. Recently it’s a change to an acronym that describes the companies values. Literally come on. Red hat is basically the IG Farben of open source but no one is fleeing the Linux kernel because of their involvement. Another recent freak out came from a new ceo who took on venture capital. The company intends to broaden its user base and provide its service as a trusted third party in an increasingly fractured world, that takes capital and the part no one seems to be willing to hand to ceos, leadership. There have not been tangible changes to bitwardens free service as a result of these events.
My favorite Bitwarden freak out is the tos data collection one. Someone posted the terms of service and highlighted that user data could be collected and used. Now that’s something! Wait, it was the terms of service of the website, not the service (an important legal shield in some jurisdictions) and was just boilerplate. There was no evidence ever provided that Bitwarden collected user data in any way other than that which is part of rendering a web page (how big is the viewport, what protocols do you support etc.).
If you take anything away from this, hell, if you even read down to the bottom and see this sentence: don’t discount cloud password vaults, you may end up relying on them during a trying time.
Thanks, but I never knew Americans had bad teeth
You’re a legend for delivering, I can’t read it all right now but I’ll find a moment tomorrow (Sunday), thank you for taking the time to share your toughts!!
Yubikey -> Nitrokey
How so? I always liked that yubikeys could not be flashed with firmware updates. Makes them impossible to compromise if a bad actor gets access to it, so in don’t have to worry about it being on my keychain 24/7 even through malicious government security checkpoints. And I don’t want it for passkeys or other single factor sign on because you should always use 2 factors of differing types (something you know, something you have, something you are). So yubikey with the smaller form factor and relatively great durability has always been my choice.
They are proprietary afaik
I do love Posteo, but they explicitly do not support custom domains, as said in their FAQ. However, it is very strongly anti-AI, and has strong ethics that I think anyone in your situation would agree with.
For VPNs, I love AirVPN a lot, though I hear it can be rather slow. For me, I personally use it for downloading Linux ISOs as well as getting past wonky internet connections and it works really well for those use cases. From what I could see, Xeovo also seems to be torrent-friendly as well.
I’ve recommended Aegis to close family and have used KeePass (as well as XC and ChiPass, which is an AI-free fork of XC) in both a personal and professional capacity. I will have a look at AliasVault though, as I would like to move away from BitWarden myself.
Tbh. if they use AI but the code quality is the same I see no problem. All the code just has to be audited by humans.
yep, that’s my connundrum right now, posteo also seem to have a more generous offer for cheaper (than mailbox)
I wish there was a good one with custom domain support, unlimited aliases and good filter for tagging/moving to folder so I can move from same sender based on title
Privacy first
First time I’ve seen AliasVault. The built-in email server to create aliases and receive email is cool. No need to use a separate service. Can anyone who uses AliasVault share your experience? I know it’s FOSS. I can’t find any info if they’ve been independently audited. If it’s great, I’ll switch from Bitwarden.
It works pretty good. The thing which is scaring me is that they don’t have a strict limit for the amount of aliases, instead a fair use policy. I have eleven aliases right now, so I guess it falls under fair use. There is also the option to use public aliases which aren’t hosted by AliasVault themselves. I personally only use the E2EE one from AliasVault and create the passwords in KeepassXC/KeepassDX.
Having to maintain aliases sounds like a nightmare. I have over 100 probably on my catchall setup.
Something that keeps being missed in these posts that I would recommend is Forward Email and NymVPN. For self-hosted email, I have also seen Stalwart recommended.









