Does anyone really recommend Ubuntu these days? I think Mint has reigned supreme for years, at least for beginners.
I recommended Mint to my partner and she wasn’t too enthusiastic about it after trying, I have Ubuntu on one of my laptops where she has a guest account and she actually prefers it even after hours of use so her new laptop is getting 24.04. I did do the diligence of explaining that Ubuntu is to Canonical as Firefox is to Mozilla, and why some Linux heads aren’t a fan.
Since bookworm, I find little need to push them past Debian. It’s clean and runs all the things.
I barely see people recommend mint anymore. It like every other Ubuntu family distro keeps having too many issues and poor gaming support compared to the steamOS styled distros.
Everyone is going to bazzite or cachyOS as the new “noob” distros cause they just work and play steam games and have steam deck isos.
How does mint have “poor gaming support”?
How does mint have “poor gaming support”?
- The last time they tried it was ages ago, or they followed some old instructions.
- They’re trying to play a game that has serious anticheat aspirations and doesn’t run well on linux
- They want to play roblox.
It’s funny to see so many different echochambers at play. 🤭 No offense of course.
Mint is still by far the most popular distro, I even saw Goodwill selling computers with it now. Ubuntu is also widely used, apparently it’s really popular in India(?). Meanwhile in hackspaces NixOS and Arch are super popular. Personally I like OpenSuse, therefore hear a lot about that family of distros. We’re existing in a super diverse ecosystem.
It’s just annoying when people recommend stuff not because they think it’s the best pick for the person who’s asking, but because they like it best (I swear on my grave, I god damn saw people recommending NixOS for elders and Arch Linux for productivity environments that must be 100% stable). Therefore I made a meme about it.
Debian/ubuntu/arch is easy to use even as a beginner, just try NixOS and compare.
Tap for spoiler
Ubuntu was so good. Too bad my brother simply shut off my VM when I was using it
I want to install fooFlorp2!
check nixpackages:
"
environment.systemPackages = [ pkgs.fooFlorp2 ];or nix-shell -p fooFlorp2 "
edit configuration.nix, add pkgs.fooFlorp2
install happens, won’t work, no mention about the binary
Web search
ohh you don’t install it with pkgs, there’s a systemd that has to be enabled, and some config wrapped around it.
But the documentation said…
The documentation doesn’t lie, but it often doesn’t give you the whole answer either.
I love nix, but installing anything interesting ends up with a lot of websearches.
On the upside, my home/work and travel pc’s are all just lockstep. anything I install on one just ends up on the others, and that’s something cool.
As a person who just barley figured out how to install Mint in some laptops most of that looks like a foreign language to me.
heh, that’s even the easy part, it has a whole language that comes with it too. Getting up and running on NixOS with home-manager and flakes makes Arch install look like Candy Crush.
But it has lots of super-powers once you learn it. Steep curve though, and it never gets fully better, to this day it’s a search or two when I install something I’ve never used before.
No don’t use Nix they’re evil. Use Lix or Auxolotl or Tvix or Tangram or Brioche or Guix
Why is Nix evil? This is the first I heard
There was some politically charged drama… I think. There was some drama, anyway. I’m not clear on the details.
It was probably a Twitter-tier disagreement that was blown way out of proportion by a small group of people. If others have details, please don’t enlighten me, I value my ignorance.
NixOS accepted a military company and Pentagon contractor as sponsor and only dropped it after backlash. Ever since then the trust in Nix governance is damaged, even with them trying to regain trust.
(There also are other problems it appears like a distro maintainer pushing new & superfluous core tools without any discussion about it, but this seems to be the biggest one)
Overall linux is insecure and trash. Everyone should use temple os. Its the only os whose creator made an os to evade cia, thus making it secure.
Or arch instead of NixOS 😂
When my win 10 gaming box EOLs this fall, I’m probably going to jump it straight to arch, since it looks like the most straightforward way to build a Steam OS like system.
If you want a steam OS just use cachy they literally have a steam deck img that is just steam OS minus the immutable bits for all realistic purposes.
Was going to be skeptical about an obscure distro, but I see they are currently #2 on Distrowatch. Can’t believe I’ve never heard of it before.
Appreciate the recommendation, I’ll def look into it!
good luck.
My gaming PC has been running EndeavourOS for about a year now. First ever time running any spin of arch and it’s been a stellar expirience. You can pry this desktop from my cold dead hands, I love it.
If you get bored later on try CachyOS. An update borked my eOS install and somehow screwed up my snapshots. So rather than deal with it, I tried out Cachy (Arch base) and just never went back. It has some quirks, but I haven’t had any issues for the past 6 months. And it’s fast.
I know that there is arch based distros that are more user friendly but I was talking about clean arch and not about arch based distros.
Oh yeah sorry I didn’t mean for it to sound like I was contradicting you, I just love my EndeavourOS install so much I couldn’t help but chirp up! I would not recommend any arch to a new user, including EndeavourOS.
It’s fine. I just said it because I thought there was a misunderstanding.
That’s where I went. Happy with my choice. Almost 2 years now.
@fxomt@lemmy.dbzer0.com I think they found you
I’m in everybody’s walls… whispering the words “NixOS…”
I see a lot og talk here abotu wha tis best. I want to play my games and work on my papers. I have mint right now but is there a better choice fro a beginner?
If you’re already on Mint and it works for you it’s a great OS to work with, so no inherent reason to switch. However if you look for something more modern with the same Desktop Environment as Mint (Cinnamon) perhaps Fedora Cinnamon is something for you (doesn’t use apt though). The most modern features you’ll find on a distro with KDE (Cinnamon for example is behind with support for modern stuff like HDR).
You’ll get tons of recommendations when it comes to modern KDE distros. Personally given you said you’re a beginner I’d suggest giving TuxedoOS a shot, as they
- Got the Nvidia drivers preinstalled
- Are based on Ubuntu (Best compatibility)…
- …which is the same base as Linux Mint (so .deb still work)
- Got the App Store all set up optimally (some distros don’t)
- There’s a hardware supplier if you ever look for sth.
Some negatives:
- Comes with Tuxedo Software superfluous to you (removable of course)
Depending on your beliefs it might be a negative that it’s made by a company. However Tuxedo is based in Germany (therefore GDPR applies), they’ve people work full-time on it and a good track record for many years now. Also having the Nvidia driver pre-installed is really good in my experience, only very few distros do that due to license stuff. Otherwise of course there’s also Kubuntu or Fedora for something with KDE. You can test all of them on DistroSea in your browser.
Feel free to ask anything. 🙂
I’ve had some people here tell me about POP_OS as it’s the most friendly to NVIDIA hardware and also is configured for gaming.
What are your thoughts?
It being good for Nvidia hardware isn’t wrong, but it being the best or especially good for gaming isn’t exactly true. It mostly boils down to the proprietary Nvidia driver being preinstalled and a lot of media attention why Pop!_OS became so popular for gaming.
Other distros that are just as good or better for gaming with Nvidia are, for example:
- Bazzite (Immutable)
- Nobara
- TuxedoOS
The first two are really going the extra mile for patches and gaming support. Bazzite can be a little bit frustrating though given it requires some additional knowledge to work with immutable file systems if you ever need to edit system files. Otherwise you should have a solid experience on any of them.
See I actually have a dual boot with Nobara right now and it is not playing nice with my RTX 3070
Kinda new to Linux, is that the documentation icon ?
That’s Ubuntu, Mint and NixOS.
Thanks, I had recognized the first two but had no notion of the third
“Arch” they just need to read the newsletter before updating.
“Gentoo” because fuck you personally.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_From_Scratch
Linux From Scratch (LFS) is a type of a Linux installation and the name of a book written by Gerard Beekmans, and as of May 2021, mainly maintained by Bruce Dubbs. The book gives readers instructions on how to build a Linux system from source. The book is available freely from the Linux From Scratch site.
LWN.net reviewed LFS in 2004:[19]
Linux From Scratch is a wonderful project. It should become a compulsory reading material for all Linux training courses, and something that every Linux enthusiast should complete at least once. This would also create another interesting side effect: people who tend to be quick in expressing dissatisfaction on the distributions’ mailing lists and forums would probably show a lot more respect for the developers. Installing a ready-made distribution is a trivial task. Building up a set of 4 CDs containing a stable, secure and reliable operating system, plus thousands of applications, is most definitely not.
This just reminds me of my first experience with Linux in the late 90’s. Yes they had installers that got the base system working, but then you had to compile so much.
I did this once. I got to a command line installation and I think I either borked installing a usable desktop environment, or I was just sick of it all and decided I wouln’t be getting working hibernation or Wi-Fi this way anyway and the slightly lower resources used wasn’t worth it.
I think I had tried Gentoo before that and must have decided I didn’t like myself for some reason.
“Some DIY is fun, some is stuff we do by mistake because ‘well how hard can it be anyway?’ and it teaches us a lot for the next project. The rest we do purely to spite ourselves, because we should be able to do it, damnit!”
-thing I said to a friend who asked why I was putting so much effort on myself when I could just buy a flat-pack for the same cost and 99% less effort.
Which distro should I pick?
@tal@lemmy.today: No
Before upgrading, users are expected to visit the Arch Linux home page to check the latest news, or alternatively subscribe to the RSS feed or the arch-announce mailing list. When updates require out-of-the-ordinary user intervention (more than what can be handled simply by following the instructions given by pacman), an appropriate news post will be made.
alias yay=“yay -Pw; yay”
Today I learned, thanks.
@Natanox Seems like NixOS replaced Arch as both a local extremist cult and the most effective newbie repellent.
What’s funny to me here is that, as a long time Arch user, I have been considering switching to NixOS. One of the most terrifying thoughts to me is that after using the same Arch install for 2 years I will spend ages trying to recreate it if I ever have to. Oh, that and Nix letting you test packages seems like a cool feature.
I was in the same boat two years ago.
What I did is that I’ve setup a VM with NixOS in it to play with, learn the language and tweak the configuration file.
The great thing about NixOS is that once I was feeling confident enough to switch I installed NixOS on bare metal, loaded the configuration file I prepared in the VM and I instantly had everything installed and running. (Except for the NVidia drivers, fuck nvidia)
Since then I’ve stayed in nixos and I’m not looking back.
This would likely be the plan. This is solid advice really for anyone swapping distros really.
I’ve been on arch around a year now and also considered the jump to NixOS. I was actually dual booting it with arch for awhile and I found pretty quickly that the shit documentation was a huge turn off for me. I ended up nuking the nix partition and reclaiming it for arch.
This is my biggest issue. I am utterly spoiled to the exquisiteness that is Arch’s Wiki…
I mean the Arch wiki mostly works on NixOS too. The problem with NixOS documentation is that there aren’t many examples for the Nix language itself.
What is the Nix language like?
Terrible. Unless you like Haskell, DSLs, and the like.
If Haskell and json had a baby
Hmm, that sounds more like dhall
I’ve found that the Arch wiki works for most distros if you know how to translate it. There have been multiple times I’ve searched how to do something or how to fix something in Linux and the only useful result is an arch forum or wiki. All I had to do is translate the steps for debian/ubuntu/opensuse/fedora/rpiOS, etc.
The process was usually “search this error” > “this part” isn’t working, search “this part error” > arch forum showing steps to fix. Search “where the fuck is this file in <distro>”. Get “it’s usually here, here, or over here”, then do arch steps.
Then there’s opensuse, and there’s fucking camelcase capitals in their packages (NetworkManager? Seriously?) so I have to Google “opensuse <command/application> package” like a fucking rube.
Yeah one nice thing about nixos is that their package search website is really good. You can also search for config options with examples.
Arch wiki is the documentation gold standard
That and the need to learn a bespoke, weird programming language that will only ever be useful for this one thing have really turned me off of that distro.
Definitely. Why not use something off the shelf! That by itself would make it much more approachable
The nice thing is that NixOS will keep your setup and all your tweaks if you ever need to reinstall. It’s designed to solve that exact problem.
One way of switching over would be to carry over your homedir and just starting with migrating packages and config as a first step.
I am about to switch away from arch that I installed 5 years ago. It’s a daunting thought isn’t it?
Documentation? For Nix? Yeah right.
Did you know that the suffix for nix documentation files is, coincidentally, .nix?
The code of the packages is the documentation. So the newcomers better start learning Nix language and reading the paper about how Nix works under the hood before they get started! /s
But seriously, I used NixOs for about 2 years almost 10 years ago and while it was/is fascinating when you have everything setup, getting there and maintaining everything across so many packages that each have their own way of configuring them took hundreds of hours. I’m back on Arch using a custom tool I wrote to fully manage my configs, packages, dotfiles etc.
The way I remember it is that there is no consistency across Nix packages and it all feels like a giant puzzle for people who enjoy spending time configuring more than actually using the computer. And I say that as someone who actually enjoyed getting into that when I had unlimited time.
I dunno man. I spent way less time configuring my machines on NixOS because it just works. But in fairness, that is after I have spent a lot of time learning it (compared to classic systems that is, not a lot compared to NixOS maintainers who write way better module than I do). Now that there is a foundation, I just run the updates. It’s almost scarily stable. And the ability to group related settings together is such a bliss because you no longer wonder about “what did I do to enable X”, just open the file, it’s all in one place. Stuff that could be three completely different things (e.g. a service specific config file, a PAM entry and the service activation itself in effectively 5 lines. Want to do something for multiple services? Just map over their list. Etc
I happily used Arch for 15 years and after trying NixOS on a decommissioned machine for one day I switched over everything as fast as possible. And I did try out Ansible on Arch, so it’s not like I didn’t try management via a tool. But using a system like NixOS just solves sooo many potential issues.
It obviously comes with downsides, for example there is no quick configuration change. Changing something small requires another evaluation. Still worth it
Okay, but when I figure it out on my desktop I just copy paste the exact snippet to my laptop and it just works.
Do you think I can remember the steps I took to fix my issue with Ubuntu? I don’t remember what file I modified and where I put some config file.
But to be fair, Nix is not the only answer to that. There are lots of tools for just dotfiles but you can also build something using e.g. ansible to manage everything.
All my computers have their config in a git repo. That includes users, packages, services, dotfiles, /etc configs and so on. I used ansible before writing my own tool. I can install Arch from scratch and only need to partition, run one script and then apply my config on first boot using my tool to have my system restored. I know it’s not as declarative and absolute/reproducible as Nix, but it works and it’s way less painful than my last attempt at giving NixOS a go.
I’m about neck deep in ancible/salt/chef over the years at work.
They are great tools for simple configurations where multiple people are needed in the kitchen, but they require meticulous curation.
But I buy a new laptop, I slap in my USB vanilla Nix ISO, drop two config files in /etc/nixos call rebuild and I’m done.
Updating my packages to latest is a single command. Adding a package is a single line. And the most powerful thing, nix-shell -p whatever install whatever for that session. I don’t even bother putting most stuff into my declaritive configs, nix-shell -p ffmpeg, when I exit it’s no longer available.
And if I do something awful to my config and brick it, it’s just one grub menu to go back to the previous version.
Either my Ansible knowledge is too limited which is entirely possible, or you can’t do stuff there that’s possible with Nix. Let’s stay go with my example that you have something that requires changes in PAM. So you write an Ansible file installing the package (which is distribution-specific, so you’re losing one advantage you had over NixOS), enable the service and add your entries to the respective PAM file (e.g. login because you want to enable user authentication against kanidm on your machine). The ordering in these files matter. Sure you have
insertbeforeandinsertafterforlineinfileandblockinfile, but this basically requires you to know the rest of the file in advance… not a problem if your system is always the same, but you don’t have the flexibility and composability that Nix offers.I’d say, from my experience with Ansible, that it can absolutely do all of that. Might be able to use a single task for the package install, if the distro supports the generic
packagemodule. There’s also a pamd module that would likely cover your needs there. If not, it would still be possible with a custom module or some Xinfile fuckery (if it can be fine programmatically, it can be done in Ansible, more niche things may require writing code, however).It would not be as terse though. Really wish there was a good middle ground.
It can do that, but it gets more complicated because you are doing this is in an imperative way. For example, in Nix it’s trivial to change the config and remove something.
In ansible there’s no guarantee installing a package and removing it won’t have side effects. You could install a DE and decide to switch back, but it already changed some files on your system
This is true. It can be done but would require functionality not included in stock Ansible.
I really love this image for this, that expression combo is perfection.
definetly! do you know what anime that is?
Chatlotte (2015)
