People here will literally tell you “I don’t want to hear about it” but then complain about the gas prices. It feels like a total Don’t Look Up moment.
Locking for rule 6.
they are in denial and don’t want to admit they made a mistake voting for trump.
As a foreigner witnessing my own people voting for some representatives that spread nothing but a desire to destroy all they can, here in France, the real question is: knowing what’s happening and if given a chance to travel back in time to change their vote, how many of them would still vote for the same candidate because they hate the other side more than they hate hurting themselves?
Too many, is the answer.
Base instincts to hurt others are just too strong.
If people are emotionally hurt, they abuse themself (throw themselves into work etc). What do you think would stop people from hurting/abusing others?
If people are emotionally hurt, they abuse themself (throw themselves into work etc). What do you think would stop people from hurting/abusing others?
That, I could not tell. What I can tell is that education was supposed to help fight that by helping all of us (not just ‘them’) learn to think more… adequately when faced with a problem. ie, to not decide on anything based only on…
Base instincts to hurt others are just too strong.
Here again, the only tool working against our instincts, all of them, is… education.
So, the failing of the public educative system that has been happening in the USA for the last few decades, a very similar failure to what is happening right here in France (since approx. the 70s-80s) and what is happening in way too many other democracies too, is the real issue.
At least, I think so. People not being educated in school is what’s making the situation real dramatic. And it could even be hopeless.
The school has been increasingly failing at teaching kids much of anything, and even less so how to properly think by not being taught:
- how to properly read books, aka being able to access and understand nuanced/complex information and ideas, and being to properly listen to people expressing nuanced ideas.
- how to write, aka how to properly express their own nuanced ideas and how to properly share them with one another.
- how to do math, even simple calculus, aka be able to manipulate basic logic and abstraction. Heck, how many kids are not even being taught how to properly read a clock anymore (the one with hands and numbers written all around… sorry, my English is really lacking here and I’m not sure what terms I should use) or even funnier how to read roman numerals on a clock? It’s obviously very symbolic but by not teaching kids how to read time on a clock, we’re kinda leaving left out of time trapping in an endless and formless present.
When you remove reading, writing, abstraction and thinking in a nuanced fashion from education, you stop creating citizens that will be able to manage living together in society, including with people they disagree with. All you’re left with are… basic instincts and gut feelings. And, like a wrote in another thread a few days ago: we all know that what usually come out of guts of our guts is not bright ideas, right?
Heck, I would even say that not properly teach them how to speak foreign languages we’re betraying kids. Including what we now wrongfully call dead language, Latin and Greek.
How many US citizens have no idea their precious Founding Fathers they’re so proud of were indeed real intellectual, real nerds that enjoyed books and could read them in a few languages, including Latin and Greek (including my own French, in which so many essential ideas were formalized around that time too, ideas that helped shape the revolutionaries ideals)?
Why is that not a requirement anymore? Do we really think we’re so much smarter than them, that they were too dumb to realize it was ‘a waste of their time’ to read dusty Latin and Greek, or some other language outside of English? Or can we start considering the idea that maybe, just maybe, they were reading those texts in the original, not in translation, because they realized it was giving them a direct, unmediated, unfiltered, uncensored access to essential ideas and thoughts that helped shape their own?
So to get back to your question, how could that trend change?
I have no certainty but I do think that if people started asking question about the failing of their public education, the damage that is being to their own kids. If they started investing their energy into educating again (there was a time back then when it meant something to get a diploma and, nope, it was not all about getting a better paying job). If they started doing that today, then in a few years maybe things could start moving in the right direction again.
But this would still take years and, what an odd coincidence, it happens we’re now being intensely educated to not tolerate being asked to wait a few days, or even a few instants, to get what we want. So, the idea of working for a few years without getting any immediate feedback is rather unlikely to happen, I’m afraid.
Meanwhile, while the public education, the one that is accessible to all kids no matter how wealth their family is, while this school is collapsing under its own and unprecedented level of stupidity, the private education system, the one that is accessible only to wealthy kids, is doing quite ok. But, obviously, than can only be another odd coincidence we should certainly not worry about: elites kids being properly educated while the wider population is being intensely un-educated.
I’m now waiting to see who will first explain it will be a good idea to suppress teacher’s jobs from the education as it will save so much money (like if school was supposed to be a business making money) and to replace them with AI… Another thing that is 100% owned by a handful of elites that will now also get to decide what and how kids will be educated… just not with their own kids, mind you, as those privileged few will keep on receiving proper education, aka human-made, in their fancy private schools.
So, putting books in the hands of kids. Even more so difficult books would be a good starting point.
Go read a biography of some of those founding fathers I mentioned, see what they were studying and reading when they were kids and compare that to the absolute garbage and pure non-sense today’s kids and teens are expected to… no even read anymore, because it’s too demanding to read. Well, it happens making a revolution (against the world first or second empire of back then, Britain), and creating a new republic based on democratic principle was a also quite demanding too. But here again, that is obviously just a mere coincidence and those people created the USA by sheer luck.
I think I agree with your points. The society today has become constrained that beyond work, there’s no reason to do any of this (enjoy reading books, talking in multiple languages, etc.) in adulthood.
How do people know to cherish this and train the next generation if they don’t do it in the first place?
How do people know to cherish this and train the next generation if they don’t do it in the first place?
Like with everything new: through trial and errors. Another essential thing our tech-ridden world tries so hard to make young people not realize: anything worth learning is hard work. Be it to ride a bike, to write and to read, to send a ship into space or to… walk.
Now, how is one to realize education is sorely lacking?
Imho, one needs to look at young generations and see how completely lost they feel and… act. My idea is that young people have not magically become dumber today than they were some 50 years ago. So, if they’re as smart as they used to, what else has changed that could explain that sad situation?
Quite obviously, the world around them has changed but fundamentals have not (people want food & shelter, sex and will work or do war to get that). Much more importantly imho, the real change happened between how people were educated back then and how they’re being educated today.
Why is that more important than any other change? Like I was saying earlier, education is what is supposed to help people think and be able to deal with problems, any type of problems. Give them a shitty education and they will deal with any problem in a shitty manner.
Right. This is exactly why I don’t talk to my family anymore.
Or that it was fine to not vote
Thats because Americans tend to be lazy, apathetic, and generally quite privileged. Most Americans dont want to think about their privilege nor about the suffering needed to perpetuate American dominance. They just want to live in comfort and thinking about these things make them deeply uncomfortable so most choose not to at all.
I think you put it perfectly
They’re like the rabbits in Watership Down who know they’re being farmed, but can’t admit it to themselves
I mean, who are you talking to…? The ones I talk to are going to protests. But also, I’m not hearing much about it because people are busy with their lives and are generally not very interested in talking about things they cant do anything about. Instead we talk about each others lives and goals, relationships, jobs, projects, hobbies, music.
If somebody came up to me and started trying to get me riled up about Iran, I would say “Yep, sure does suck. Can’t wait til somebody assassinates that sumbitch.” And that would be the end of the conversation.
Apathy is a powerful tool for fascist regimes. The same happened in Italy and Germany back in the day
no, you’re a Nazi!
Not really relevant to OP, but if you’re just talking to activists, you’re probably going to end up out of touch. It’s an extremely small minority.
Also true. But I wouldn’t categorize anyone I know as a serious activist. They are just the sort of people who will go to a protest if it fits into their lives
Because they are directly responsible for it.
Fatigue. There’s just been so much and it’s kinda fucking draining if you stay plugged in to it all. It’s not like doomscrolling will make the situation any better either.
Also like, that was kind of the point of Don’t Look Up. People do just shut these things out. If you understood the movie you should know the answer to your question.
Actually doing something would make the situation better, but most people can’t be bothered. I’m sorry, if you didn’t vote or go to demonstrations (unless you have a very good reason) , I’m not feeling sorry for you. You’re obviously not bothered enough.
What kind of ‘something’ do you want me to do?
make grandstanding statements on the internet, duh. like vaguely demanding others do something!
Oh and then if the person replies you call them names and tell them that they are a fascist/nazi/etc. because if you aren’t doing ‘something’ you are clearly assisting the bad people!!
@AskewLord@piefed.social @FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world
If you’d like some suggestions and a plan of action:
The protests are good ways of meeting like-minded people in your community to form connections, as well as spreading awareness of local mutual aid groups so more can join or form ICE resistance groups who can join an encrypted chat to coordinate, alert neighbors, and talk strategy. It also is a good place for unions or union members to encourage others to unionize their workplaces, which can also ultimately work toward a national general strike: our most tangible and powerful collective action.
The country would be brought to its knees if suddenly deprived of profit and labor, allowing us to directly demand real changes (Ending the war in Iran, stopping the genocide of Gaza, and Abolishing ICE should be towards the top of the list).
The General Strike was extremely effective in Chile in 2019, and had they not fallen for the trick of liberal reform, they would’ve had a successful revolution on their hands with virtually no bloodshed.
There are some concrete steps all of us can take toward enacting that hard-core general strike to make it more viable and bearable for us all. (the titles below expand if you click them).
Learn First Aid! ⛑️
Violence is being used against those who resist and it will only continue. It extremely important to have the skills to be able to keep yourself and others alive if they get hurt.
Tacticool Girlfriend provides a great introduction to building a personal first aid kit, called an IFAK, which can deal with things like bullet wounds and other serious bleeding wounds. I also want to emphasize her recommendation of only buying medical gear from reputable sources (not Amazon!), such as North American Rescue to avoid fakes that could cost you your life.
But you’ll need to learn how to use that equipment, too. The best resource for that is to take a local Stop The Bleed class, which are pretty widely available in most places. They may cost a small fee, but can also sometimes be free. Alternatively, if you cannot access a local class, this video by PrepMedic will give you a solid understanding of how to use Tourniquets and Gauze for wound packing.
Injuries are less harmful if they are tended to early. Learning first aid can help conserve resources when healthcare becomes unaffordable. Having several medics in case of harm by police is an extremely powerful morale booster during a protest that may become a police riot. When you become comfortable with the basics of first aid, riot medicine is the next suggested step.
Establish or join local Mutual Aid networks ✊
If you haven’t already, get to know your neighbors. Mutual aid is a willingness to support and grow your community. This can include informal networks through friends, tenant/renter organizations, solidarity groups, and industrial unions.
These are groups using direct action to solve each other’s problems. Building strong communities makes it difficult for fascism to take root. The actions of the government are going to hit every community hard, and the ones who build trust in each other and work together are most likely to survive. We’ve been building a list of resources in !inperson@slrpnk.net to help you on your way. Also check out this handy guide to find existing groups in your area.
This isn’t only for your own community protection. Your ability to organize today will change the political landscape tomorrow. When revolution occurs, the social organizations that show the greatest resilience through the regime are the ones typically calling the shots when the dust settles. When it comes to elections, get out the vote drives are useless if most of the voters are fascists. At some point, you have to do grassroots political education if you don’t want fascist candidates winning elections. Mutual aid networks are excellent forums not only for teaching each other good political ideas, but demonstrating them in practice.
There’s also some projects you can do that help build community (and can be fun in themselves!), for more info, go here, and scroll down to the “Fun Projects to Build Community) section”
Join a Union to help prepare for a General Strike! 💪
If you aren’t in a union (or even if you are, it’s worth dual-carding), consider joining the IWW to unionize your workplace (bonus: you’ll get higher wages, better benefits, and more time off if you succeed!) to make a general strike possible.
Once you are in a union you and your coworkers will need to pressure your leadership to prepare for a general strike, as well as pressure them to organize with other unions to enact a general strike. This is especially true if you are in a more traditional union that isn’t the IWW. Your local shop may need to organize directly with other unions if your union leaders are too cowardly to do so.
Most unions have a strike fund that can supplement your income during a general strike to make it more financially bearable (you should also save as much money as you can reasonably do, so it can also be used to keep yourself afloat during a strike). A General Strike is officially planned by the UAW for May 1st 2028, but it was planned before Trump was elected, and by then will be too late, so prepare now for one that may start sooner.
You can contact the IWW with the link below:
And for our international friends, you should join one as well, as fascism is gaining momentum globally. If your country isn’t listed below, just contact the IWW directly in the link above, and they’ll help you set up a new local branch.
Adopt Security Culture and Digital Camouflage 🛡️
Sometimes benign seeming efforts can turn into unexpected personal data collecting traps. Like an obscure website for exchanging contact info with other students turning into a global ad-tech surveillance network (Facebook), or innocent seeming online personality tests being use to harvest character profiles. Even Etsy, Reddit, Tinder, and Duolingo are feeding information to US Government Agencies like ICE.
Security culture is commonly used to describe the general awareness of such potential traps and how it can affect groups or entire communities. This goes beyond mere individual privacy efforts, as without joint efforts these often fail to work.
Especially in activist circles, security culture is paramount. For opsec reasons not everyone in the group might be aware of what clandestine efforts others are involved in, but with a general security culture many potential data leaks can be avoided.
Movements are made by the volume of their participants, and the easier and less dangerous it is to participate, the more people will get involved. As more people get involved, individual involvement becomes even less dangerous, creating a virtuous cycle.
We’ll start it off with some General Advice:
- Mentally wall off personal uniquely identifying info from your online presence, actively build a habit of opsec so that withholding information is your default mental state
- Be careful about who you meet online
- Use different, unrelated usernames, passwords & emails for every account. And try not to connect to those accounts with your real IP address (use Tor or a VPN)
- Be mindful that anything done online leaves a trail
- agents provocateurs may seek to find patsies willing to perform an ill-advised illegal activity in order to legitimize police repression. If someone is trying to pressure you, especially if you don’t have a long and proven history with them, be extremely wary.
For a full guide on what encrypted communications platforms to use, and how to stay off the radar, read the Digital Camouflage section within the Monthly Meta post here (you’ll need to scroll down. I’d add it here, but it won’t fit in this comment).
I’d also highly recommend Full Spectrum Resistance to anyone who wants further info on how to resist (audiobook version here).
Woulda, coulda, shoulda. None of this will work to move the nation. Maybe it worked in Chile, but Chile isn’t made up of 50 different countries like the US is.
The only thing that will affect meaningful change on a national scale is a massive cultural change. I think that reinstating the draft could do it, but we’ll see.
I do think that it’s important to do what you can at the local level though. The people still have a measure of power there.
All of what I suggested are local level tactics, the only thing that is of a national scale would be the unions organizing together, but all of those unions are made up of many thousands of small unionized shops at the local level, and even if that last stage of general strike doesn’t occur, all of those local tactics are still extremely beneficial.
The tactics that worked for Chile can also work at a town, city or state level, and if one does it, it can inspire more to follow.
Strike
These yokels just kinda ignore that unless you’re a federal legislator or a billionaire, you are utterly powerless to do anything meaningful about this beyond virtue signalling.
USians on Reddit were bitching for the past four years that Russians should’ve overthrown Putin if they didn’t want to have a war and be ostracized. So probably something of this kind.
I haven’t watched cnn for years but this weekend they started talking about “enemies of our country like Iran ….” where their starting assumption was that bombing Iran was a normal thing to do, so the rest of the newscast wasn’t worth listening to
Because there’s NOTHING we can do about it right now. Nothing.
Republicans want whatever trump wants.
Centrist democrats want whatever netanyahu wants.
I’m on the left. What I want doesn’t matter and I’m tired of getting blamed because centrists have to pretend they don’t love everything turmp is doing.
As someone looking from outside, it feels like a lot of this could be minimized if the US fixed their electoral system.
It’s an arcane system that makes the votes of the middle states more valuable than the outer states. Which means deeply conservative states get to say who runs the country.
So you end up with a religion driven police state, fueled by technofeudalism. Not unlike the regimes you keep overthrowing.
it feels like a lot of this could be minimized if the US fixed their electoral system
Yup, which is why they fight so hard to prevent any change to this system!
They don’t want to be confronted with the point that their own vote for Trump caused this whole mess.
There’s a lot of evidence suggesting this presidency was stolen. What would you say if you learned that the majority of America didn’t want him back in the oval office?
It is not just the last election. The downfall of US politics is coming for decades now, and is not only caused by the recklessness of the Republicans, but also by the infighting and lethargy of the Democrats.
What about lethargy and infighting of leftists? You don’t even make it onto the ballot lol. My point is that many Americans are opponents of the trump regime and being critical of them is blaming the victim
They may see themselves as opponents to Trump, but a lot of things they did actually lead to the Republicans and Trump come to power. Shit did not happen to start in 2024, 2020 or even 2016. It started promising in 1776, and went downhill from there because of the lack of political maintenance.
This is a national responsibility, starting with simply accepting an outdated voting system, politics based on outdated and ambiguous documents and a failure to update them to be more precise. There is no flow of lessons learned back into the core of the system. There are no attempts to keep political corruption in check.
…leftists?
I mean, basic math already showed us that the majority didn’t want him in office either time. But even with all of the shady shit and even straight up election fraud he couldn’t have won without the votes from a large number of people who purposely chose the hate filled pedophile option.
Do you know what election fraud is?
They’re MAGA, and want to keep pretending that they haven’t broken the entire fucking world.
Trump is the kid that would come to your house to visit, and break YOUR toys.
The 1/3rd of eligible voters who didn’t vote in 2024 aren’t MAGA . They’re just some combination of dissolutioned and ignorant. They’re also not up to the task of navigating the pathetic state of the modern information environment.
If you didn’t vote, then you might as well be MAGA. American Democracy is literally on the line, no excuses accepted.
The US has never been a democracy
It’s about time we start having a war that affects us negatively even in a limited capacity. Honestly, I think the fact most USA citizens haven’t experienced war, especially as the being invaded side, makes them complacent and just war happy.
Because I’ve been hearing about wars and chaos for decades now. I hear about this stuff literally everywhere. I’m aware of it. I don’t need it shoved in my face 24/7. It’s exhausting.
It’s also addictive for a lot of people. They get so engaged with this stuff online that they neglect their real lives. That’s not healthy.
This encapsulates why it’s so hard to get the majority of Americans to care. The cycle of war, price increases, dwindling quality of life, crumbling infrastructure, growing wealth inequality, racism, misogyny, bigotry; it’s all normalized over decades. Americans don’t get shocked by anything unless it happens directly to them. And not “oh gas prices are up again, that sucks”, but “a cop gunned down my child”. Without having to suffer personally a lot of us will continue to abide the suffering of others and act like being made aware of it is an affront to our right to blissful ignorance.
That’s not what makes it hard for them to care.
What makes it hard for them to care is none of the proposed solutions have been more than barely slowing the decline, and eventually you have to accept that it’s not stopping.
It’s not that it’s constant, it’s that there’s no hope.
At least that’s why I stopped caring.
America is only in a decline because you choose to see it as declining. Conservatives saw the progress that was being made as the decline of their version of “how it should be”, proposed an entire Project book of solutions, and have rapidly stopped the decline of their way of life at the expense of everyone not in their camp (well, a lot of them are fucked by it but they never thought it would happen to them).
Sometimes progress is revolutionary and rapid, sometimes it’s tunneling through bedrock with your fingernails. You might not see the other side in your lifetime, but what you achieved makes the job of the person who comes after you that much easier. Right now conservatives are filling every hole we’ve ever started tunneling- from women’s right, to minority rights, to civil rights regardless of what race/gender/or orientation you are- with concrete and they’re not going to stop until they erase what we have done.
There’s a lot of things that happen in the world that neither you or I have the power to change. But every day you chose to let something you could affect be trampled unchallenged, your apathy is their gain. Conservatives banded together despite their differences and showed they were willing to commit violence to get their change, and they empowered the most selfish among them to be their figurehead. I really don’t know what left-wing Americans want, their own super-lib version of Trump that will use authority to make all their dreams come true, or to sit around and be well-meaning victims who blame a decline on the inability to find a dictator of their own. You have agency, go use it even if it’s not going stop every wrong currently happening.
Bla blah blah. Heard it all before. It wasn’t convincing when I was saying it to myself, what makes you think you’ll have any better chance?
A better chance is relative to the action taken and the ability of the person taking it. If I watch a house burn from across the street I have a better chance of not getting burned than if I go in to try and help someone escape. If I go in to help someone escape I have a better chance of helping them than if I stood outside and watched. Now the best chance they have is if the fire department is there, as they have the skill and equipment to do it the safest, but sometimes you have to make a choice and do the best with what you’ve got.
In Trump’s America, I have a great chance of avoiding the worst of his policies because I’m a cis white dude. If I embraced it there’s a good chance I can get ahead. If I continue to loudly express my opposition to it there’s a good chance I’ll get arrested/assaulted/killed.
Not every action needs to be monumental, nor does it all require risk. It takes next to no effort and poses minimal risk for me to pick a worm up off the concrete and toss it into the dirt. The worm’s got a better chance at living, even though whether it does or does not has no affect on affect me, the world, or the universe in any meaningful way. Nobody will ever know what I did, the worm doesn’t understand, and if I didn’t do something the only consequence would be pondering “why didn’t I help when doing so cost me nothing?”
I ain’t here to convince you because apathy is a choice of selfish convenience. You’d take action (or I guess if you’re really invested in apathy, die) if outside forces threatened you, but you’ve got to will yourself to do it on behalf of others.
Do you really think you can shame someone into having hope?
The shaming is for the self-awareness that you are know of the problem, have the ability to act, but chose not to care and do nothing. Nature doesn’t care about hope. As far as we know humans are the only animals with a concept of “hope” because we deeply understand that our actions have consequences, good and bad/short term and long term, excel at pattern recognition, keep detailed histories, can plan for the future, and can build or destroy to such an extreme we’ve changed the climate of the planet itself. We know our personal nature has a very ugly side like selfishness, hate, greed, lust, and that we often treat each other like commodities or barriers to our own success. Hope is the mentality that comes from being self-aware of our own limitations and is how we convince ourselves we can do something, personally or collectively, when everything says “it’s not possible”. There’s a fine line between that and bashing one’s head against a wall trying to get a different result out of the same wrong method, but innovation is what made us succeed. Hope isn’t a bad thing, but you don’t need it to attempt to do anything since hope does nothing but make yourself feel better about your odds of success when the struggle is real. Lacking hope doesn’t make you helpless, just unhelpful.
addictive
Go fuck yourself. Staying abreast of current events (especially horrifying ones committed by your own government against other nations on your behalf) isn’t “addiction,” it’s called being a responsible person. Pull your head out of your ass.
This IS your real life. You need to start paying attention.
Sounds like you may need to speak to someone about it. I’m sorry for upsetting you!
I’m sorry for upsetting you!
Lol ok bud. You did it. Good job.
I just don’t get how you could read my original comment and think I’m some ostrich sticking my head in the sand. I follow current events, I just don’t obsess over them with every spare moment of my free time.
A reporter for the New York Times went to a bar during the Watergate hearings and asked if they could put it on the TV and he was kicked out
I mean, if I was at a bar and trying to relax, I’d consider kicking out whichever cunt decided to put on something stressful like that. Imagine going to a yoga class and insisting that they change their binaural tone background soundscape to death metal instead. If I want to watch the news, I’ll tune into it. I get enough doom and gloom in my daily life, I don’t need it shoved in my face when I’m trying to relax.
TVs in bars is such a weird American thing
Even reasonably classy places have them.
I thought it was just a TV trope, but I am always amazed at how it’s normal to have an antisocial device in a place for socialising
Its not uniquely American. Plenty of Mexican and Japanese bars have TVs too. Mexican and American bars love putting on a sports game while Japanese ones show a lot of music videos.
