I am so tired of the whole “cool pope” thing with Francis. It’s 100% PR.
And I think an organisation covering for pedophiles and murdering kids in their schools have no moral high ground and it is definitely unfit to lecture anyone on human dignity.
Eat a bag of dicks Francis
Francis,
Calamari is just the tips.
Exactly. There people are a threat, not role models.
The only threat to human dignity here is child-rapists being considered the experts on morality.
Conservatism is a vile plague and religion a tool of conservatism. There is no greater threat to humanity than conservative religious people.
there’s the catholic church that I knew and hated.
I wonder why multiple adults beating the shit out of 6 year old me with yardsticks wasn’t a threat to human dignity.
What didn’t kill you made you stronger
Fuck all the way off trauma has no reward. It took me a long time to grapple with that with my own childhood traumas. I used to think that after going through my own personal Hell, there’d be a Heaven waiting for me, but there wasn’t.
Don’t be like this, it’s so exhausting. Even if you struggle with sarcasm, all you need to do is take half a second to ask yourself if it’s possible it could be a joke. For an obviously flippant comment like this—obvious because it has no other value—you will literally never go wrong interpreting it as a joke. If it is a bit more complex, ask: “Sorry, I just want to confirm, did you mean this sincerely?”
if only we had a convenient indicator to indicate sarcasm from assholery. /s
consider that I’ve had to hear this exact phrase in complete earnestness from anyone I’ve ever talked to about my abuse for three and a half decades and that it’s never been anything other than a way for other people to comfort themselves about their involvement and/or lack of involvement
Consider that it is almost certainly a snide comment aimed at the people who would do what you are describing and excuse it with a bullshit phrase like the one in question.
As long as you are thinking strictly in terms of what you have suffered, you are virtually guaranteed to misinterpret the information in front of you.
I am not indifferent to your struggle, but being 50+ and still so easily triggered… that seems miserable. Not saying it’s easy, but when I find myself spontaneously experiencing undesirable emotions, I like to lean into it and try to understand what’s going on.
The past isn’t real, and we get one chance at this. Your story can be what you want. Maybe some pages weren’t great, or maybe the entire book got lost in a house fire - that’s ok.
I hope you find your way through very soon.
outta here with that shit. we don’t “look on the bright side” of child abuse. What didn’t kill me made me terrified and angry.
Human dignity has been a nonarguement for 100,000 years
Human dignity is certainly not something the world’s leading sponsor of institutional child rape should have any opinion on
Indeed
I feel like that’s a bit of a conservative estimate honestly.
Probably. the further back you look, the less dignified humanity appears. dignity drops hard in the face of reality
The universe was a mistake and all that jazz.
And thr vatican can fuck right off with their outdated world view.
Wonder why they’re losing so many followers
It’s important to note that all the times he’s been the “cool pope” he’s prefaced all his statements with the phrase “ex cathedra”, which means he’s speaking as himself, not “the Pope”. Because anything he says as “the Pope” is the official church position.
Gotta hand it to all the folks who warned me that “cool pope” was just paying lip service to progressive ideals and didn’t actually fundamentally change how shitty the actual Catholic church is. They were right all along and I owe them all an apology.
He’s kind of a wimp, then. I’m sure his progressive views are genuine, he has no reason to lie, but I’d think he would know that Canon Law is geared towards papal supremacy, the Cardinals can denounce him all they like, but they can’t kick him out. Sure, he could start a schism, but the world was overdue for one, anyway.
How about you work on your age-of-concent-fluidity problems first.
Then there’s spreading HIV in Africa (and other parts of the world) by preaching against using condoms. How many millions have died of AIDS because the Catholic church told them or their partner not to wear a condom?
It’s insane at how influential the Catholic Church is with their followers considering how far spread out their followers are. They have to be the most influential organization ever, right?
Tbh the problem is not not wearing condoms, is allowing the virus to still exist. I say we need some purge by fire to get rid of that dangerous virus. /S just in case
There wouldn’t be many people left if all the pedos got removed.
Pretty ironic considering what they have done to human dignity for centuries
Let this be a reminder to you that organized religion only accepts social progress when they get dragged to do it under risk of becoming irrelevant. This Pope’s previous winks to the LGBT community were the bare minimum that the Catholic Church has to do in order to not to continue losing followers (and their wallets) in some countries such as Spain and Ireland. The moment a much less mainstream concept, such as gender fluidity, gets brought into the table, it’s free game for them again.
Vatican should shut the fuck up and pay attention to their own bullshit before casting their stone. The glass house they live in is barely held together. How many children at this point now?
The Vatican is still covering up little boy rape, right?
They’re definitely covering for little girl rape too
so the vatican is running the same fuckin narratives as the american GOP??? Surrogacy?!
The Vatican said Pope Francis had approved the document, which also reaffirms its condemnation of surrogacy, saying the practice represents “a grave violation of the dignity of the woman and the child”.
“A child is always a gift and never the basis of a commercial contract,” the document says. “Every human life, beginning with that of the unborn child in its mother’s womb, cannot be suppressed, nor become an object of commodity.”
The ethical problems with surrogacy are real, but they’re not about the child. They’re about income inequality and putting adult women through a physically traumatic, dangerous, and possibly life-changing experience for money. If we were able to use artificial wombs for “surrogacy” (I know, it’s technically not the same thing), I think people would see it as nothing but a new type of fertility medicine.
My cousin did it because she wanted to help someone have a child. She didn’t do it for the money. When it’s a financial transaction, I see the issue.
It also helps LBGT couples who can’t have children get them. I don’t see an issue even if there is money involved if it is clearly not coerced.
The issue is ensuring its clearly not coerced, which is effectively impossible in practice. Unfortunately it’s one of those things where once you allow people to be paid for it, it’s gets really, really dark, really, really quickly.
I don’t think it’s impossible at all. If the surrogate knows the person or people who want the child personally, it’s almost certainly not coerced even if money changes hands.
Im not sure I can be so confident just because the surrogate knows the couple. If anything that would make me more worried about coercion. That could easily add MORE pressure for a surrogate to take on the pregnancy if that surrogate knows how important it is to the couple.
My coworker had to use a surrogate to have a kid because of her infertility issues. I promise you, there was no coercion. When you regulate things it’s much easier to ensure everyone is consenting. The problems happen when you ban shit and drive it underground.
That’s amazing, I’m glad your coworker was able to find someone and get to be a parent.
I’m sorry if I came across as advocating against surrogacy. I don’t nearly know enough to have that strong of an opinion on it in either direction. All I wanted to get across was that making sure there’s no coercion is hard. Not impossible, but hard. There were some really sweeping statements under this post that felt like they were oversimplifications and I wanted to consider the nuance.
LBGT
Lesbian, Bay, Guysexual, Trans
Believe it or not, the letters can go in any order.
Not appreciating utterly hilarious ‘guysexul’ pun and going “well ackchully” instead
plenty of unwanted people out there to adopt, no need to make more
Do you know how hard it is for a gay couple to adopt in the U.S.?
Separate from any discussion about surrogacy, that’s fucked and our adoption system should be way more accepting of gay couples than it is. There’s no reason it should be so hard.
I don’t know how I feel about it overall (surrogacy, not gay people getting to have children, that’s beautiful), but it’s hard to be confident there’s no coercion when money is involved. The money itself can be coercive especially if the surrogate is particularly in need of the money. I’m not sure it can always be “clear” it’s not coerced.
In the U.S., where medical care is expensive, I think money to cover that should be expected.
Absolutely! And more to cover other expenses like maternity clothing, any comfort items to manage the pregnancy, additional dietary needs, and probably some more to help account for how traumatic a pregnancy can be and the body changes it causes.
I’m absolutely not advocating that a surrogate shouldn’t get paid. Just that it’s hard to separate payment from coercion in even the best situations.
Believe it or not, there are women in this world who love being pregnant and want to help couples have kids. There are laws around it and reputable clinics make sure everyone is consenting.
So the vatican can fuck off with this outdated way of looking at the world. In fact, if you consensually want to sell your body in any way, we should be allowing it with regulations, be it surrogacy, egg donation, or sex work. Make it safe and make it a choice.
Who the fuck do these Vatican people think they are, to lecture others on morality? The previous pope instructed all of Catholosism that they were not to report pedophile priests to the police on pain of excommunication. And this is apparently fine by the current pope.
They are a bunch of idiots with no coherent concept of morality. All morality is based on personal responsibility, but most Christians seem to think they can ask their imaginary friend - rather than the one they have wronged - for forgiveness, and be granted it! It is absolutely absurd. I’m not saying that Christians in general are bad people, I’m just saying we shouldn’t be looking towards Christianity or any of its leaders for moral guidance.
Incidentally - do you know which World War 2 nazis were excommunicated for their crimes by the Catholic church? You’d probably be surprised to know that it was only one. One! And who was it? It was Joseph Goebbels. Among all the heinous crimes commited by the nazis, what was it that Goebbels specifically did that caused the Catholic church to say “enough is enough”? I’ll tell you what he did: He married a divorced protestant. “That’s it,” the Catholic church said, “you no longer get to go to heaven with your fellow nazi war criminals. Killing 13 million people in the Holocaust alone we can live with, but marrying a divorced protestant? No, we can’t have that, that would be, like, totally immoral dude.”
But surely, I hear you say, the Catholic church was against the nazis? No. No, they were not. Hitler’s birthday was celebrated in German Catholic churces all throughout the war. Only in 1960’s did the Catholic church apologize for its silence during the Holocaust, and revert the hitherto established doctrine that all currently living Jews - including children - are personally responsible for killing Jesus. That’s why they didn’t oppose the Holocaust - because the Jews (never mind that they weren’t the only victims) had it coming, since they were all (some-fucking-how) personally responsible for “killing Jesus”.
So, yeah. I’m not going to let these morons lecture me or anyone else on morality.
Who the fuck do these Vatican people think they are
The most powerful government in the world.
Yes, because living your desires as your true self is no way to find dignity. And surrogacy?! Like…what.
