• dublet@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      I’m suddenly reminded of this quote:

      “Meanwhile, the poor Babel fish, by effectively removing all barriers to communication between different races and cultures, has caused more and bloodier wars than anything else in the history of creation.”

      – Douglas Adams in Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy

    • xkbx@startrek.website
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      2 months ago

      Phhh that’s exactly the kind of behaviour I’d expect with a user from leminal.space!

      • Obinice@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Bahh! Bloody Trekkies stirring the pot as usual, go back to your Spock Base and phase some Vulconions!

    • falseWhite@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      Yep. Creating division amongst the common class, so they fight each other, instead of those in power who are the real criminals.

  • Clairvoidance@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    2 months ago

    Violence isn’t the answer!

    The answer is… checks history book

    wait not that one… starts flipping pages

    uhh if you hang on a second uhh furious page-flipping

  • ShaggySnacks@lemmy.myserv.one
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    2 months ago

    The State only respects power. If a group of people show that they have more power than the State, change can happen. However, what is power?

    Power comes in many different forms.

    There is economic power which is showcased through strikes and boycotts.
    There is democratic power which is showcased through the ballot box.
    There is soft power which is showcased through the lobbying, and speeches.
    There is non-violet power which is showcased through protests, marches, and sit ins.
    There is violent power which is showcased through physical violence such riots.

    While, the populace has access to many different forms of power. The State is limited to either soft power or violent power. Depending on the State, soft power might not even be contemplated.

    Riots are just one form of power for the populace to exercise.

    • korazail@lemmy.myserv.one
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      2 months ago

      This feels really insightful, and I wonder if there is a source other than ShaggySnacks.

      Can anyone expand on or contradict this comment? I honestly want to hang it in my house so my children can see it and understand they power they have.

      • ShaggySnacks@lemmy.myserv.one
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        2 months ago

        This feels really insightful, and I wonder if there is a source other than ShaggySnacks.

        Sadly, no source. It’s something I’ve observed. I can’t recall any time a State changed it’s position on an issue simply because it was the moral thing to do.

        There are other forms of power such as legal (using the Courts), culture, morality, etc.

        The examples above aren’t exhaustive, for example having allies in the State does help with change, which is means running for office in an a democratic system.

  • BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today
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    2 months ago

    The only reason we have 5 day work weeks, 8 hour workdays, overtime pay, benefits, workplace health/safety/environmental regulations, unions, health care, paid time off, vacations, etc. is because our grandfathers and great-grandfathers busted heads, and got their own heads busted, fighting corporate goons in the streets - and WINNING!

    Those heroic workers would be ashamed at what their grandchildren have let the Sociopathic Oligarchs have done to America. They fought hard to keep those psychopaths under control, and we not only let them up, we helped them take full power.

    • NotACIAPlant@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      grandfathers busted heads, and got their own heads busted, fighting corporate goons in the streets - and WINNING!

      No one won anything. The massive militant strike actions in the USA in the early 20th century usually were losses. Wins tended to be pyrrhic, with the company cleaning house a couple months later or simply reversing the won benefits.

      Things were brought to a head by the depression. The solution was simple, the most militant leaders were arrested, reforms were done to buy off the less militant, and the anger was channeled into marching all of us off to war (with the support of the non-militant collaborationist unions, of course).

      • BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today
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        2 months ago

        Except that in the end, we still have the 8 hour workday/ 40 hour work week, overtime, benefits, etc. None of those things existed before the labor riots, so things didn’t get rolled back as much as you claim, and the most important ones stuck permanently.

        The Labor Riots were extremely successful, and completely reconfigured the American workplace for the rest of the century, and beyond. MAGA wants to revert to the old days.

        • birdwing@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          2 months ago

          Yup. Poor MAGA thinks they’ll get 2 hour work weeks if they went back to the good old days.

          The truth is that they whites will all be working the fields again without holiday, cheap medical aid, and so on.

          • BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today
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            2 months ago

            A lot of them think they’ll be slave owners again. I’m sure there are a few yokels who think the day is coming when they can just go grab the nearest black neighbor and declare him their property, and force him to get to work in the fields. After all, that was the original reason those Africans CHOSE to come to America ILLEGALLY right?

            Well, he’s got a trailer, so maybe he just makes his new slave pick up the house, make the bed, and wash the truck.

        • NotACIAPlant@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          Everyone I know works more than 40 hours a week because its not enough to live on. Overtime is barely doled out and “benefits” account for either expensive PPOs or slightly cheaper HMOs (which suck, fyi). And I live in a state with strong labor protections. In all of the country its entirely possible to work more than 40 hours a week and not receive any overtime pay at all. Or be misclassified, or be subject to illegal wage theft.

          All that changed is the worst jobs got sent overseas and a certain section of careers for the college educated exist that provides some semblance of “good benefits and good hours”.

          • BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today
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            2 months ago

            Yeah, corrupt corporations are exploiting the system, with the help of the corrupt government. What’s new? The fact still remains that the work environment we generally accept as normal, was created by those Labor Riots, and we are still better off for them. Even if MAGA manages to roll back the workplace environment to the 19th century, they will always have to compete with the memory of America’s peak, and will look bad in comparison.

            • NotACIAPlant@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              You have false nostalgia for a time you weren’t even alive as things have always been shit for working people especially in the United States.

              • BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today
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                2 months ago

                You are stuck on your biases, and can’t even consider the idea that labor issues were terrible in the 19th C/ early 20th C, and it was labor riots in the second quarter of the century that ended the old way, and began a new workplace environment. It is definitely not perfect, but it’s far better than it once was, and it’s ridiculous to argue otherwise.

  • buttnugget@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    I think it’s worth pointing out that calling these riots isn’t really appropriate. When we think of riots, we think of unfocused, unplanned, unmanaged, etc. Highly organized protests sometimes wind up turning into riots because capitalists use violence, but it’s not the norm.

    • FlyingCircus@lemmy.worldBanned from community
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      2 months ago

      Labor movements in the 19 th and early 20th centuries also literally organized riots, where the express purpose was to destroy property. It used to be a legitimate protest strategy against the owning class.

    • korazail@lemmy.myserv.one
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      2 months ago

      Super This:

      Organized, non-violent protests are not riots. They are people, in mass, using their freedom of speech to complain about something.

      A common issue is that some people, either within the protest group, or outside instigators, will then prod the protest into violence in order to discredit it. Two examples:

      • Police using rubber bullets/tear-gas/pepper-spray to disperse a lawful gathering. This escalates and adds tension. Not everyone is prepared to weather abuse to stay non-violent. Gassing a peaceful protest is going to make at least some of them really mad and is a pretty trivial way to turn a peaceful protest into something else and remove it’s message, making it just a “riot.”
      • Agitators claiming to be within the group, but who are actually against, it performing actions such as property damage or violence in order to discredit the whole event. If a non-violent march is walking down a street and some dick throws a rock through a store window and steals something, the whole march is called a riot by the media.

      It’s important that if you are involved in a protest that you stay calm despite what is thrown your way. The protest is the message and fighting back during that event is only harming your message. Please do things like capture pictures/videos of people inciting violence, of police using crowd control on peaceful protesters, of generic unfair treatment; but during that event, the goal is to be calm. Afterwards, you can take all your grievances to the medias. If you’ve been harmed during a protest, find a lawyer – many will work pro-bono for cases like this and if your first pick doesn’t… fuck 'em: Name and shame – and then fight back after the event, when you have legal standing.

      Your grievances are real. Your pain is real. The people in power will use every trick to discredit your issues. Don’t give them ammo.

    • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
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      2 months ago

      Personally I wish they’d rioted a bit more because frankly I’m usually done by about 1:00 p.m.

    • merc@sh.itjust.works
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      2 months ago

      I’d say it was more the union organizers than the anarchists. There was a lot of overlap. But not all labour organizers were anarchists. It could even be argued that the anarchists hurt the movement more than they helped it. Some of the anarchists like August Spies were attempting to disrupt the status quo, but were trying to do it relatively non-violently. He even refused to show up to speak at the rally if workers were told to arm themselves. On the other hand, August Spies was part of the labour/anarchist movement that wore military uniforms and marched around with muskets, so it wasn’t like he was completely non-violent. Around the time of the Haymarket affair though, he was less radical than some of the anarchists, who were expressly violent and wanted to start a revolution using bombs and guns.

      The fact someone threw a bomb gave the police the excuse to crack down on the anarchists. The crackdown prevented the aims of the protesters from being achieved. But, the fact that the justice system hanged the anarchist leaders led to them being seen as martyrs. That made them famous, which made May Day famous, which eventually did help lead to the 8 hour work day. Would the 8 hour work day have been achieved faster without the bomb being thrown? It’s hard to know. The immediate result was a major setback for the cause, but the long-term result of the overreaction to that bombing was a contributing factor to the 8-hour workday eventually being achieved.

  • BC_viper@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    Violence is the only answer, and until youre ready for that nothing will change. Extreme violence is the only answer.

    • Aljernon@lemmy.today
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      2 months ago

      Not entirely. As they say, there’s a different between being peaceful and being harmless. Sometimes the threat or implication of violence is just as or more effective.

  • Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    2 months ago

    The most sociopatic “winners” of the current system will always laud whatever was done to establish the system in which they get so much and decry anything that might overthrow or even meaningfully change that system.

    Those who have a more empathic view of things, even when they too are considered “winners”, have a different posture if they think the current system isn’t working well for most people because they don’t think only about personal upside maximization at any cost for the rest.

    As it so happens, caring for more than just “me, me, me” is what distinguishes leftwingers from rightwingers.

    So this is a great way to spot fake leftwingers in or seeking positions of power and wealth: no matter how “progressive” their words are in general, when it comes to the current system they’ll display exactly this kind of hypocrisy of being against any kind of actions that will change the current system whilst lauding the very same kind of actions when they installed the current system, since their one true drive is “What’s in it for me”, a rightwinger’s motivation.

  • zululove@lemmy.ml
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    2 months ago

    Woe to the vanquished !!

    the names of our heros, and our defiers, will last forever !!

  • danielton1@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    Funny how it’s getting harder and harder to find a job in the US that isn’t 10-12 hours a day, six days a week.

      • danielton1@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Yeah, we’re definitely going backwards. Americans blame the unions and worship the billionaires and politicians that are making everything worse.

  • Gorilladrums@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    Civil disobedience for the sake of it is just stupid. When we retroactively look at civil disobedience in history, we intentionally filter out the vast majority and just highlight the few examples that we’re done in ethical ways, for the right causes, and achieved results. Civil disobedience is not a virtue nor is it uncommon. What actually matters are the motivations, principles, and methods used behind the civil disobedience.

    • its_kim_love@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      2 months ago

      Trying to say that all the ones that failed did it wrong instead of realizing that no matter what if you succeed or fail they’re only going to elevate the ‘right’ moments and demonize the ‘wrong’ ones based on the needs of the ruling class.