This kind of gatekeeping and elitism is bad for Lemmy and for FOSS.
It makes this community a less welcoming place and leaves new folks with a bad first impression. Much better to be welcoming and let people learn/see the benefits of FOSS at their own pace.
I’d given up on lemmy because every so I had tried was unfinished and unpolished. I tried sync and finally felt like the user experience wasn’t getting in the way of content.
I’d love to support foss, if a genuinely comparable experience existed.
I’m glad to say that sync has revived my interest in lemmy.
This is why I unsubscribed from the Android community. I love Android, I use nothing but Linux at home and really appreciate open source software.
But the FOSS…enthusiasm is starting to border on zealotry. It’s getting really unpleasant.
Sync is just so much more polished and feature-rich than all of these already… It’s exactly like how it was when it was for reddit, and it’s just one dev! I don’t mind at all paying for a fantastic app.
You guys are taking the justified corpo hate and extending it to talented individual devs just making a living.
FOSS isn’t about “corpo hate”. It’s about freedom. There’s a philosophy behind it. You can, of course, disagree with it, but I think you should know what you’re disagreeing with.
If the users don’t control the program, the program controls the users. With proprietary software, there is always some entity, the developer or “owner” of the program, that controls the program—and through it, exercises power over its users. A nonfree program is a yoke, an instrument of unjust power.
I’m talking about the community. A large part of the community absolutely is about gate-keeping and hating on corporations… and now devs too apparently.
A large part of the community absolutely is about gate-keeping and hating on corporations
I haven’t seen that at all. Hate doesn’t bring you far.
I have and it’s good and cool.
Well maybe not gatekeeping. But hating corporations…
In general I strongly prefer open source, because lots of propertiary software will try to vendor lock you and then extract money from you, when it’s hard to escape for you.
In this case however I can change back to Connect or other any second, so amount of control this program has is extremely minimal and experience in exchange is better.
Informed choice is better than picking and following dogma, because dogma doesn’t work in some cases.
Yeah F locked ecosystems. Anyone can walk away from Sync if they don’t like it.
The philosophy of FOSS is very cool but for one dev Sync is way too much work to be doing for free. It has my support.
It’s about a very narrowly and specifically defined version of freedom, which somewhat ironically restricts people’s ability to define freedom for themselves.
I personally find Apache2, MIT, or the WTFPL a lot more free-feeling than all the restrictions GPL imposes in the name of freedom.
I used to agree until I saw corporations starting to fork open source projects to run them internally like the “I made this” meme.
If I spend months or years of my life toiling over a project and license it permissively with MIT or such, they can just swoop in one day and take it for free and be like “thanks, we’re going to make mega bucks off your code and give you nothing” (and yes this does happen https://www.elastic.co/blog/why-license-change-aws).
No, screw that! I’m gonna make my stuff AGPL and those guys can damn well pay me for my time of they want to use my stuff or more cynically, do it anyway or go and reimplement it themselves in-house knowing damn well I can’t afford an army of lawyers to actually do anything about it.
Your freedom to swing your arm ends at my nose. Your freedom to do whatever you want with my code ends when you want to bind other users with it.
Yes, the “free” in free software specifically refers to the freedom to read and modify the source code.
That’s the specific freedom we are talking about when we say “free as in freedom”.
Also, under the philosophy, permissive licenses (like MIT or BSD) is still considered free since you can see and modify the source code. The only thing the GPL strive to ensure is that this freedom will be awarded all others who interact with the fruits of your labour.
Yeah, until he gets an attractive buyout offer from an SEO company who wants to get into data mining.
Hating on someone based on unfounded hypotheticals is fucked up. LJ has always been very open with the community for the whole time Sync was on reddit.
Username checks out ig?
Wow, that is “hating” in your world? I wish I lived there. Take it down a notch, dude.
Yes, I am talking about potentials; potentials that simply do not exist in the FOSS world but happen every day with commercial software. A significant difference between an independent dev and a libre project is that you own the libre project. No one can ever take it away from you. You merely borrow it from the independent dev, and in that way, and speaking as a frustrated developer myself, every single one of them suck in all the same ways that every single corporation sucks. There’s no difference. That’s not hate, that’s pragmatic realism.
So what exactly is the problem here? If Sync gets bought and you don’t like the new owner, you can stop using it and move on…
deleted by creator
I mean, just change apps at that point? There’s no lock-in, worst case you lose what you paid to remove ads. No point getting worked up over hypothetical scenarios
I mean he had all the opportunity for selling Sync for reddit and take profit. I converted to Sync nearly 7 years ago when I bought their ad free version called Sync Pro. He made great improvements adding material ui and lots of desirable features for an already great app. From my POV he didn’t abandon the app, gave updates till the last day of its existence and was a great dev in general who was active in his sub listening to our queries . Maybe the people who knew him from those days are the ones who is supporting him now.
I am disliking this sentiment. I am on the Fediverse because Sync’s developer and many others were betrayed by Reddit and I wanted to show solidarity and to ‘punish’ Reddit by leaving. The Fediverse’s values are admirable, but I do not share them all. I believe in supporting good projects, even some that are private if they don’t pose a risk of destroying something bigger, and Sync is a good project that can be easily abandoned without consequences if something goes wrong.
If apps were girls:
I was always in love with Sync. But life happened and we had to go different ways for non-romantic reasons. Some fucker called Spez, long story…
Eventually I met Voyager and she was great. Any user would be lucky to have her. But Sync was always the one that got away. Everyday I looked at Voyager and thought she was awesome but I was always holding a candle for Sync. But Sync was gone and I had to move on. But I could never really move on.
But life happened again and Sync was coming back. I had committed to Voyager but, as great as she was, I always thought how she came short of Sync. Sync came back and she was as stunning as I remembered. I couldn’t stay with Voyager. I’m sorry Voyager. You’re an awesome girl but I was pretty much just using you since I couldn’t have Sync.
I’m a user Voyager, I make no excuses. There, there…
I say this as someone that uses FOSS day to day for work, I don’t really give a shit if my Lemmy app is FOSS.
For me, Sync was Reddit. It’s where 99% of my interaction with Reddit happened. I don’t really give a shit about Lemmy or the fediverse either. I’m here because Sync is a seamless product that gave me the best interface.
Despite saying that I don’t care about Lemmy or other distributed servers, Sync is basically that sync (lol) for me. Once I map my old subreddits on Lemmy, the experience doesn’t change.
I don’t get the point of this.
Since when did Sync masquerade itself as FOSS?
Just use whatever you want. Isn’t that why we’re all here?
Is the Sync noise getting to you? Just ignore it. It’s natural since the app just opened up and there were a significant amount of Reddit refugees that badly wanted their app back.
Sync is by far the most polished. Everyone acting this is some major company. It’s literally one dude.
The gatekeeping is so fucked up
office_thank_you.jif!
We all ditch reddit because of how they screwed over 3rd party devs, and now one of the devs have worked overtime to create a similar UI* for this place, and now that dev is chopped liver. WTF?
*I’m just guessing on that part, because I didn’t try sync for reddit and I’m using the mobile web interface for lemmy for now, so I can’t really say.
Same UI! I love it
Am I missing something? What gatekeeping?
The fact that people shit on every proprietary software saying FOSS is better.
While FOSS is definitely good for the consumer. Proprietary is sometimes just better in function ¯\(ツ)/¯
All the people you find here fled from a proprietary platform that was abusing its position of power in order to profit off its users. While Sync for Lemmy is not in the same ballpark it nonetheless shares the same proprietary nature of reddit as it is a proprietary client that connects to a platform that is completely FOSS. So I believe it is entirely valid to campaign against the use of Sync for Lemmy and educate everyone about its dangers (loss of freedom, trust can’t be verified, abusive relationship)
I didn’t join Lemmy because of the ideology behind the project I joined it because I didn’t approve of what the owners of reddit were doing.
If the Sync dev starts ruining the app I’ll get a different one for the same reason I made a Lemmy account.
The key detail you are missing is that most people that left reddit did so on the backs of closed source third party apps. That’s what kicked off the entire firestorm of events. The reality was that, of those who used third party apps, most used closed sourced solutions.
FOSS is great. FLOSS is even better. People should support projects they identify with, just like people should support their home Lemmy instance via community funding. But far too many of the argument I’m seeing against Sync and others basically boils down to “we shouldn’t pay for software,” like our [software engineer] labor is just something to be had for free.
Closed source third party apps are no threat to Lemmy. The failings of reddit cannot happen to Lemmy so long as one instance does not come to define Lemmy in such a way that they can self-isolate and essentially turn into a proprietary model itself. Let’s all recall that Reddit was, once upon a time, open source.
Third party apps are about choice. I hardly consider someone using a closed source third party app–in a sea of many, many FOSS versions–a loss of freedom or an abusive relationship. Come on, that’s very hyperbolic. And I’d wager 99% of people can’t verify that trust even if they wanted to since most people don’t understand code, let alone software development practices. They just take the word of random strangers whom they have no right trusting saying “yeah it looks good.”
People like to stick with what they know, and anyone who used Sync on Reddit will now be that much more inclined to give Lemmy a try because they get an interface that feels familiar. I can see this only benefiting the communities on Lemmy over time as the user base increases. Other popular apps like Boost coming to Lemmy would also draw in new users.
It’s great to have a base layer of free, good quality apps to accomplish some goal because it creates a very low barrier to entry. I keep F-Droid installed on my phone because there are times I need a very basic app to do something simple and the risk of malware is inherently lower in an app whose source is public vs private. I can check out the repository and take a look for myself if the permissions it requests are concerning.
That said, there are real advantages to a proprietary app. The developer has a financial incentive to keep the product up to date and add more features to maintain or increase the user base. This benefits not only paid users but also unpaid, ad-supported users.
Like you said, it’s about choice. If FOSS is important to you, go ahead and pick one of those clients. If you like snazzy new features or you want to stick with a client you’re familiar with, go ahead and do that. Nobody should be shamed or criticized for their choice either way.
You’re confusing the platform with the app the platform used, not the same thing
Proprietary software deserves to be shat on since it doesn’t respect your freedom.
And this comment just shows that Foss shits all over our freedom to use whatever software we want.
Yeah not how it works.
How is this gatekeeping???
How is this gatekeeping???
“You aren’t welcome here if you aren’t FOSS.”
It’s pretty damn clear.The choice of a “teletubby” is obviously meant to be insulting too. If the point were that it was just different, they could have used practically any other hero from the same viewer demographic, instead they went with one only watched by “babies”, and almost universally understood to be “stupid”. Ask yourself “why did they choose a teletubby instead of a ninja turtle?”
…because this was originally just a comic that was joking about a teletubby trying to join in with the Power Rangers that is now an exploitable meme.
Like the other guy said, this is a popular meme format, OP didn’t draw this. They’re not saying Sync is bad, they’re saying it’s not FOSS like everything else we’ve seen so far
But I guess it’s a matter of interpretation. I liked the meme but I’m sending this from Sync ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Oh nooooooo someone made a familiar and easy to use app to help people get used to this new ecosystem that can only thrive if people actually show up and use it. What a real shame.
Are we really being this petty already?
I honestly don’t see what the problem is. If you prefer FOSS use FOSS apps.
I’ve tried every single Lemmy app for iOS and Android, but I can honestly say nothing comes close to how smooth and native Sync feels.
I wasn’t even a Sync user on Reddit so I didn’t understand the hype, but I get it now. On my Pixel 6 Pro all of the other Lemmy apps had some kind of issues, whether that be random crashes or frame rate issues. But Sync is just so smooth and feature rich.
I’ve also joined the sync discord and the developer is very clear on what type of data he collects (He doesn’t, but Google may).
Also with the pricing, if you don’t agree with the price that’s your opinion, but the amount of complaining is ridiculous. He made the app so whatever he wants to charge is his decision. You can also still freely use the app (with ads) so no one is forcing you to buy.
I like all the FOSS and community development of different Lemmy clients that’s going on, it’s really awesome and great to see.
But if Apollo was released for Lemmy, I’d subscribe to Ultra (or buy lifetime) in a heartbeat and only look at alternatives out of interest, not because I’d want to use them as my main Lemmy client. Apollo was just that good.
Views like this one feel pretty toxic and elitist to me. Let people use Sync if they like it. Let people use their Android phone unrooted if they are fine with it. Heck, let people use Windows if they like it.
I’m anti mega corporations with consolidated power and platform monopolies. I’m not anti small distributed devs getting paid for high quality hard work.
To be fair, this should be the other way around. All these foss apps are the teletubbies because they’re clunky and have major bugs. Sync is the power ranger.
Yeah I’ve used all the apps in this post and Sync is just light years ahead of all of them right now. Well worth the 19$ to remove the ads
Kinda shitty to hate on Sync like this for not being foss when the dev never claimed it to be.
Well worth the 19$ to remove the ads
Sync has gone to subscription payments:
Profile -> Remove adsremoves ads permanently for 19$The Ultra subscription is for if you want to support the dev further.
Thanks. I hadn’t noticed that.
It’s always justified to hate on proprietary software
Might be a hot take but it’s also justified to try and make money from software development that is not prefatory
It’s not illegal to make business with open source software
It’s not illegal, but it’s not profitable.
Companies aren’t making squat from happy fans donating a token amount to show support of the software. Everything adjacent to the open source software is profitable (enterprise sales, support contracts, hardware, corporate sponsors/funding, and so forth), but you’re going to have a really hard time selling something to consumers when they can just as easily get it for free.
Sync isn’t some international conglomerate harvesting your data, it’s one dude’s passion project. Guy’s gotta eat and monetizing FOSS is real hard.
No but it contains spyware from one of those
You’re still stuck in 2002 or something? Most of the web is literally FOSS. Gone are the myths of free software being worse when the whole world literally runs on it.
(not op)
Sure, but in this case, most of the lemmy-clients (FOSS or not) are bad.
I have problems logging into my accounts (seems like some instances want my email as a username and many clients cannot handle this after I switched accounts), some clients don’t feature editing or deleting your posts, some clients don’t show my saved content, some clients don’t allow to see what you posted
Sure, much of this is because they started from scratch and will maybe surpass sync some day; but right now I couldn’t find something that isn’t worth. (didn’t try infinity yet, tho)
it’s not necessarily “FOSS is bad”; it’s just that the current lemmy-ecosystem is in it’s child shoes (I have the feeling this proverb doesn’t work in english?)
That said: I use Sync4Lemmy since 5 minutes and this is my first comment; so let’s see if/what it will deliver
Never heard that idiom before, (is it German?) Sentiment is clear though, I would probably just say “in its infancy” or something.
Also completely agree with your points. I’m a major supporter of FOSS but at the end of the day, I’m gonna use what actually works - the same as everyone else.
That idiom is intuitive as heck though, I like it
it’s just that the current lemmy-ecosystem is in it’s child shoes (I have the feeling this proverb doesn’t work in english?)
The meaning is perfectly clear. I believe English speakers would say “…is in its infancy” but that’s just a common way of saying “early stages” not a proverb per se.
Convenience is objectively not superior to morals. Sync gets personal data, while Jerboa does not. Period. Jerboa has a little jank in not having fluid scrolling, but this is a matter of minor convenience. Get back to me when non-FOSS apps do not take any data.
deleted by creator
Most FOSS apps are equal to or better than proprietary software when it comes to functionality, but look like they were coded in the stone age.
Most casual users value GUI over everything. And while I personally can overlook shitty user interfaces on apps I use once in a blue moon, for a social media app I’m using daily, that’s a no go.
Yeah a lot of open source apps looks ugly but are just better. I have no idea why design is not a priority. Just look at the most popular products anywhere. They all look good.
UX people cannot make their own apps without hiring devs ( requiring money ).
Devs can create Open Source apps but they cannot afford to hire UX guys so the UX sucks.
Larger projects can attract both devs and UX guys but getting to popularity is hard and, even then, coordinating these diverse teams ( eg. dev and UX ) take project management skill and effort. That is yet another skill set that has to volunteer to be paid.
For a proprietary app, you simply hire the people you need. When you start, you need UX either to attract uses or money. So, UX is one of you first roles you spring for if you are proprietary ( depending on the market ).
Counterpoint: most Javascript on the web is obfuscated to all hell. While technically you can see the code that’s running, it being obfuscated is definitely not in the spirit of FOSS, and largely the open source components of servers are being used to prop up all the closed-source stuff reaching end users.
Counter counterpoint: Often frontend js code is minified so that it is smaller and more efficient to transfer to the browser. For FOSS projects you should still be able to get access to that code, unminified, from the project git repo. In the same way desktop apps often ship as binary executables but you can still see the code that was compiled to build them if you find the source repo.
It does make things harder to debug for an average user but it makes it faster/more efficient to run for most end users (in the case of the desktop or phone app it makes it possible to run without needing compiler toolchains that mom and pop likely wouldn’t be able to grasp).
The key thing isn’t that what the end user’s computer runs is readable and editable but whether the code used to build that artifact is available easily and what restrictions there are on editing and redistributing that code.
It’s not about Javascript. All of the frameworks and front end tools are open source. React, nextjs, tailwind etc. - all are foss projects and run the best UX and UI we know of.
I don’t really want to be that guy, but at least in the case of React and NextJS, the companies have a business reason for them being open source.
Meta uses React internally in a lot of projects. Every other company or developer making contributions in their spare time is free labor, and it directly improves Meta’s own products.
Vercel has a vested interest in having developers adopt NextJS, as they sell web hosting. It’s easier to build a community of developers around an open-source product, and they even help out with contributions, documentation writing, and QA.
Tbh I’m not exactly sure how is that relevant? Be it Jesus guiding me to make TempleOS or incentive to sell some service the outcome is the same foss
My point is more that all these open source tools have been used by many, many, many sites to build a series of black boxes on top, for which there is no source available. I suppose one easy example is the existence of EME in open source browsers, the existence of which being the reason I actually don’t run a pre-compiled binary of Firefox, instead building it myself, with EME not built in.
On security concerns FOSS should be the better solution. Its code is readable and auditable by everyone. Closed Source need trust/faith in a company or in just one single person.
Connect is not broken that I’ve noticed after the first week or so.
To be fair they probably had most of the code ready, and just had to port it to Lemmy.
infinity seems pretty awesome judging by the short time that I’ve spent with it
Major bugs? That’s not true at all, unless you mean “no tracking” is a bug?
There’s only crashalytics on sync. No tracking.
deleted by creator
There are tracking for ads for AdMob and Amazon, it’s the first part of the privacy policy
Very good.
You can’t hit backspace on jerboa without it mushing words together
I just tested it and could not reproduce the said issue.
Nah
I couldn’t care less if foss app users or developers are butthurt because closed apps are suddenly available and gaining popularity.
Sync for lemmy landed and it has been more stable and has more features than any of the other lemmy apps I’ve tried.
Maybe if the foss apps were stable and feature rich more casual plebs like me would use them, but at the moment they all feel kind of broken.
Also, I would take issue with jerboa here. Jerboa is there but not Connect? Lol…
Paid software absolutely has a place in the world. Evil companies producing evil software designed to build a monopoly and lock out FOSS apps do not. I don’t think Sync falls into the latter and I’m happy they’ve made the choice to be able to eat.
Couldn’t have said it better myself
Just commenting this for those that may think free software is referring to price.
Free software is diametrically opposed to proprietary software, and not paid software.
Free software is free in terms of libre, not necessarily gratis. And there are corporations and individual contributors to free software that do charge for their product and maintenance of it.
