• SailorMoss@sh.itjust.works
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      3 days ago

      Centrists dems lost 2 out of 3 times to an orange clown.

      If the centrist dems can’t beat republicans, how far will they let us slide into fascism before they give someone else a shot?

      Why can’t we rebuild the new deal coalition?

      • ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world
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        3 days ago

        Nobody is going to “give” you a shot. The left has to take it. If they can’t figure out how to do that, they don’t have what it takes to lead the country.

        • SailorMoss@sh.itjust.works
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          3 days ago

          The DNC puts its thumb on the scale for the centrist all the to give them a better shot. Despite a proven track record for failing to beat Trump.

          • ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world
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            3 days ago

            And you don’t think the Republicans put their thumb on the scale every chance they get? The fight is not going to be fair. You have to be able to win in spite of that.

            • SailorMoss@sh.itjust.works
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              2 days ago

              I’m sure the republicans do put their thumb on the scale… that doesn’t mean the direction centrist dems put their thumb on the scale for is correct direction. Centrist dems still lost despite massive institutional backing in their direction.

              Candidates like Zorhan Mamdani have managed overcome massive institutional push back.

              You’re making an assumption that privately run DNC primaries are perfect competitions for determining which candidate is best. This is an incorrect assumption. The DNC itself has literally said you are wrong in a court of law.

              Do you believe the DNC should continue to push back against candidates like Zorhan Mamdani?

              • ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world
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                2 days ago

                Zohran Mamdani is a great example. He beat the Dems on their own grounds. I have faith he can be a leader against the Republican administration precisely because he proved he has a plan and the ability to execute it in spite of resistance.

                We need to get rid of “first past the post” election systems. That will allow candidates like Mamdani to be competitive in a larger variety. The way I see it, this will NEVER happen through Republicans and as the system exists now there are only two viable choices. I’m not saying it won’t be an uphill battle, but at least there has been some progress in making elections more representative of a variety of political views under Democrats.

        • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
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          2 days ago

          Getting leftists on Dem ballots and winning an election against Republicans are completely different affairs, not the least because most people don’t vote in primaries (not to mention all the manipulation). If anything why do you think beating centrists in primaries is a prerequisite for being able to beat Republicans in elections? You need to justify that assumption.

          • ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world
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            2 days ago

            You don’t think being able to win against an entrenched power structure in spite of legislative obstruction is at all relevant to defeating Republicans?

            • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
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              2 days ago

              Not really, no. The US is heavily gerrymandered and there’s plenty of disenfranchisement to go around, but fundamentally Republicans don’t control general elections the same way Democrats control their primaries, and centrist Democrats have many tools (rhetorical and otherwise) to get primary votes that Republicans don’t in general elections. And, as I said, people don’t vote in primaries. Besides, this theory has already been tested in practice; according to election polling Bernie would’ve absolutely trounced Trump in 2016, even though he lost the primary.

              • ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world
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                1 day ago

                Look, Bernie was the only political race ever where I donated money, so when I say this know where I am coming from. We have no idea if Bernie would have been any more effective than Biden if elected. Maybe the right would have reacted so hard that he would have been obstructed every step of the way, accomplished nothing, and we would have gotten Trump anyway. Maybe they would have just killed him in the first year and we would have ended up in the Civil War 2.