- I’ll buy used, so don’t want latest and greatest. It won’t be my main laptop.
- to run linux obviously.
- good battery life, light, not too small to use, but large enough to type on (obviously can do without numeric keypad). not too fragile!
- I’ll be doing some light python work, perhaps some c/c++ but I’m not after a workhorse, just something for quickly fixing bugs, or making notes on
- sub 200 GBP / 250USD I guess
I’d be interested in hearing recommendations, and also what to avoid!
A refurbished Thinkpad T480.
Under 140, latitude 5290 (from 2018, 8350u). I bought it ~2y ago. Small, 12 inch, decent keyboard, very upgradable, decent build quality, but the LCD is horrendous. Edit: used, could probably be found under 100€.
Don’t know where you are from, but I got a MacBook Pro 2015 for 150 and it can be forced to the latest macOS or just any distro of your liking. I will say that it can get quite hot and it’s recommended to switch the cooling paste and clean the fan.
For a cheap device it works fine and in this price bracket a better screen is barely possible.
I do have a surface book 2 that I will sell between 150 and 200, but I think Linux support is finicky at best. I ran popos on it, but there are just a bunch of things which would work a lot better on other devices
As much as I want to agree with this (I have a 2018 MacBook Pro that is running t2linux), this is a horrible suggestion.
Sure, if that’s the only computer (or laptop) you already have, go for it, but Linux on Mac, at least via the t2linux project is currently shaky at best. It does work, but absolutely not as a daily driver in my opinion.
Suspend is completely broken, the touchpad is barely usable, performance is horrible, audio quality is horrible, Bluetooth is unusable, battery life is abysmal.
And that’s not even mentioning the challenges you face installing it on your MacBook; firmware hacks, keyboard not working, etc.
DO NOT buy a MacBook specifically to run Linux on it if it’s going to be your daily driver. You will have a horrible time. Buy something more suited like a thinkpad.
Sucks to hear your experience being so terrible. Either I’m so coloured by the hellish experience of booting Linux on a surface (which is easy, but so many small issues after each update) or booting Linux on a mac is really easy.
BUT
I do agree, get something like a system76 for ease of use. I have dabbled with Linux, custom roms and other “hacky” stuff my whole life. I’m so used to it being hard that the experience these days feels as easy as booting windows
I have six MacBook Pro / MacBook Air computers. They all run flawlessly. Everything works. Everything, including all the social keys (screen, volume, etc). I do not have any of the problems described.
I daily drive more than one of them.
The best OS, in my view, for these machines is EndeavourOS, especially if you have one new enough to have a T2 chip. That said, I also have a 2020 MacBook Air running EndeavourOS. Absolutely everything works and it is quite fast but the fan will get quite loud (unlike any of my other machines). I have been meaning to replace the thermal paste in the hopes that it helps. I tend to use the older ones more as they do not have this issue.
My recommendation would be to go for machines before 2020. The MacBook Air 2013 - 2017 is the absolute best bang for buck.
I picked up a 2013 for $50 two years ago for a backpacking trip hoping I could use it for email and not caring if it was lost or stolen. I used it for 4 hours yesterday including for a Microsoft Teams meeting.
Considering your budget of 200 GBP / 250USD, I would recommend laptops meant for school. There are plenty of refurbished laptops out there with a decent battery condition and overall state for sale around €100. Most of these machines aren’t more powerful than most entry level Chromebooks and often have a Pentium or Celeron CPU, but that’s a tradeoff you’ll have to make. Another advantage is that they usually come with a touch screen and decent display, which is nice if you’re out and about.
A refurb!
I’m loving the new Snapdragon laptops, especially if you don’t have any heavy (read: gaming) workloads!
sub 200 GBP / 250USD I guess
Last time I checked most were starting at 700+
maybe search for system76 too. I found one on my local craigslist.
Refurbished Thinkpad. The answer is always refurbished Thinkpad.
Yep. I’m using a used ThinkPad X1 Carbon. 8 years old and running Linux like a dream
what are they like for duability - e.g. knocks from being put in and pulled out of a rucksack
Some of the best you can get in terms of durability. You might pay for it a little in weight and thickness though compared to some ultra thin models.
Lenovo also sells older models for dirt cheap on their website sometimes.
intel macbook air works good for me, with debian and xfce
-1 for intel macbooks. Horrible cooling and poor hardware support. Source, I own one.
Horrible cooling is the last couple of years of Intel MacBooks. Nothing to do with Linux.
If you run them with a “balanced profil” in Linux, they run a bit slower but the fan stays quiet. It is probably what macOS does.
Before 2019 or so, they run awesome. I mean, the newer ones are faster so they run great too even in balanced. I guess it depends what you pay for them.
The older ones are crazy cheap these days and, in my view, great value.
Instead of just throwing random preferences out there, I’ll help clarify the field of comments:
- Thinkpads USED to be a safe choice, but Lenovo has been tainting that model line for a few years. Search and find specific models, and don’t just buy because it has the Thinkpad brand.
- Framework is 100% ready to go. They have a Refurb store where everything is cheap, but if you find one cheaper, get it.
- Dell had a ton of Linux ready laptops under the XPS brand not long ago. Search and find out which to make sure, but they shipped with Linux installed.
- I hate to say it, but HP Probooks were solid and shipped with Linux also. Terrible company, but they make decent enterprise products. They’ll sell for cheap on eBay.
I have had more problems with two different Frameworks than most Thinkpads. Battery died, boot/power problems on both the 13 and 16, touchpad problem on the 13.
I prefer the concept of the Frameworks but can’t say they have worked better in practice.
There are <250USD used frameworks?
No, I don’t think I ever seem one for under 700 USD, despite some “news” saying you could find at 500 USD.
Every time people ask for cheap computers, there is always people sharing their preferences without any regard for OP’s listed needs.
https://www.dellrefurbished.com/
Check support but can score some great deals on business-class laptops here. They’re machines that are coming off lease from Dell Financial Services.
Thinkpad T, P, W, & X (Carbon) are generally pretty solid, though T & X probably better fit OP’s preference for portability. The T series is/was also user upgradable (memory and SSD), usually pretty easily. I think some of the carbon models were also upgradable, but can’t remember. Cruicial’s website is very helpful with this. If the laptop has “Idea” or “Yoga” in the name, it’s more than likely trash. There were some “higher end” Yoga models, but AFAIR none were upgradable.
old T (until t440p) you could upgrade the cpu as well, and they are dirt cheap on aliexpress
Lookup the T38
Great advice. Framework is the best choice if you can afford it. Seconded your opinions on Lenovo. They’re absolute trash now.
People are going to say Thinkpad but I am going to say 2013 to 2017 MacBook Air. Inexpensive. Light. Good looking. A joy to use. Faster than you think. And well supported under Linux (I use EndeavourOS on them myself).
This was my immediate thought. An M1 Mac laptop is still a very useable laptop, and the battery life on them is fantastic.
M1 works decently with Linux these days but anything newer than that barely works.
I was thinking Intel era given the price-point.
M1 mac is still problematic with Linux, with only Asahi offering limited support, and you cannot find one at OP’s price point.
I would argue that if brew is installed on a Mac, chances are, OP won’t even notice it’s Mac OS, unless he looks into the detail or having some specific Linux use case. OP only mentioned writing some C programs.
A problem with macbooks is that most have soldered ram, and even hard disks, which negates the possibility to upgrade to modern capacities. Many older non apple laptops can be upgraded to a larger SSD and ram, and be given a new lease on life.
True. :(
At least for the last 10 years.
I second this if he can find a 2013~2017 for free/cheaper, I use an old Macbook Air with EndeavourOS mostly for writing, but my use case is not that far from OP’s, it also runs some old games.
It is light and portable, and it is just as easy to find a refurbished option as the Thinkpad (at least in NA).
My only problems are with the drivers(the Wi-FI and the FacetimeHD camera) and the charging cable.
I tried a bunch of distros, but only with EndeavourOS I got them to work easily.
That said, if OP prefers better Linux support, and better cost x performance. He will be better suited with a Thinkpad T or X (T480/T490 or X280) refurbished will be in the price range.
X280 is barely above 1Kg, with a smaller screen.
T480 is chunkier, bigger screen and Ethernet port.
A light Chromebook?
I have recently bought 2 dirt cheap thinkpads, one for me and one for the wife.
T490s - i5 intel
T14s - Ryzen 5 AMDBoth are tick all your requirements except for the numbpad, the T14s is definitely worth the extra money, though. It can even handle some medium gaming.
Both have upgradeable nvme ssds. However the ram is soldered on the “s” versions of these laptops so find one with 16gb or more.I’ve had great results with various refurbished Dell Latitudes from eBay over the years. I have a stack of about 5 or 6 of 'em and they’ve all run many mainstream Linux distros with fantastic out-of-the-box support. I pass 'em out to members of the household whenever a laptop is needed and they’ll usually get the job done.
I’d just type in “Dell Latitude” on eBay and filter by price and such. I suspect any model with an i5 and 8GB RAM oughta be fine for light programming work. I’ve found sellers with high ratings (like 97% or higher) and thousands of sales are pretty reliable (and tend to have return policies in case you get a lemon). Just test all the hardware (webcam, microphone, headphone jack, USB ports, ethernet, etc) as soon as you get it.
I’ve saved a lot of money over the years buying secondhand, and these machines have been running without a hiccup for years of casual use.
They’re not light though!
My 5290 definately is. But it’s slightly thick. 12-13 inchers are still portable in my opinion.
small tuxedo computer
