I’ve been thinking about the impact of downvotes on LemmyNSFW and whether it’s worth having them enabled. Here are some pros and cons I’ve come up with:
Pros:
- Downvotes can be used to lower the visibility of low-quality content that doesn’t break the rules, although this content would have low visibility either way.
Cons:
- Since there are more males than females, male nudes tend to get buried with downvotes, even on communities that accept both male and female content, like gonewild.
- People often use upvotes/downvotes for things they like or don’t like instead of for relevance, as they’re supposed to be used.
- Downvotes make content from one instance less visible in other instances.
- Receiving downvotes may discourage users from posting content, leading to less overall content.
I’m curious to hear your thoughts on this matter. What are the pros and cons of having downvotes in your opinion? Do you think downvotes should be reconsidered for LemmyNSFW?
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Actually the problem is with all male content even in male only communities. So many users browse all local communities not just the ones they subscribe to, so will downvote any male content. I say this as a man who only posts on male communities basically. The number of downvotes is too high to only be from subscribers.
I think because the # of daily posts now is low enough that a lot of people just look at local, so they see content they don’t enjoy and downvote. Hopefully, it gets busy enough here to avoid that in the future
I hope you’re right. As a guy working on his own body issues, the number of downvotes can feel terrible at times.
I browse local and have zero interest in seeing male content.
My solution is that If I ever do see it I just block the community/user. Problem solved. No downvotes required.
Thank you for being responsible. I wish more people were like you. Our communities are very small, so people browsing local can have an outsize effect.
Maybe those people need a NSFW[M] filter…
#1 is an issue for me. As someone who identifies as bisexual, it’s annoying to see any male content being automatically downvoted even though it’s explicitly allowed on a particular subreddit.
As an admin, when I’m scrolling through and I see a post with -200 votes, it immediately lets me know I should look at what’s going on. That said, I’m sensitive to the fact that certain content gets downvoted … unfairly? disproportionately? and it’s not fun for a lot of people. I’m honestly of two minds.
I think you answered your own question. You’ve only got one pro, with a qualification, and four cons.
You can’t rely on people to use downvotes as intended. Even if you put it in the site or community rules, a lot of people won’t read those rules. Of those that do, many won’t care.
If someone really doesn’t like something, they can leave a comment. If they won’t do that, what useful information are you going to get from a mere downvote?
Upvotes alone are enough.
What information have upvotes when there are no downvotes? Does +1 mean that the content is not liked or that there wasn’t much traffic yet? When you take downvotes away you should also remove upvotes.
Neither of them provide a lot of information. My only point was that you don’t need both. Might as well get rid of the negative one.
I think #4 is the biggest problem. Getting no upvotes is sad. Getting downvotes depressing.
I feel this too
Very discouraging
I understand not everyone likes niche celebrity posts or certain people but constant down votes makes me want to not post anything at all
Would be best to disable them imo
The daily active user count is going down from like ~220 to like ~110 people, people constantly down voting posts isn’t going to help this community grow
💯 - it’s not just in the communities you post in, it’s almost everywhere. Downvotes are increasing and engagement is decreasing. 3rd party clients will always support this, I think, so it may not even be possible to remove downvotes. I think I prefer the separate upvote/downvote count option, or make folks votes public like kbin.
Side note: Do you know that active user count in lemmy is based on posts/comments rather than up/down votes?
I really wish lemmy didn’t just blindly copy reddit’s moderation system. Slashdot did it right (only trusted people get votes and only so many per x time and votes require a reason). There’s nothing preventing users from using the buttons as Like/Dislike and that is a fundamental problem with lemmy itself.
I’ve been a slashdot user since almost the beginning, but the moderation system is the main reason my use tapered off almost completely.
I am a semi-lurker but heavy moderator in terms of voting. Slashdot’s system seemed to only give me moderator points (that expired within a few days), only when I commented.
So when I saw messages that needed higher moderation, I typically didn’t have points unless I “banked” potential moderator points by forcing myself to comment just in case I later needed mod points. I may be missing something but I’m my opinion, not a better system.
In my opinion, the problem is that upvotes and downvotes are aggregated, like if 1 upvote and 1 downvote were the same thing that 2 users not reacting to a post. Presenting votes this way destroys information.
Somehow, this allows the downvoter to express something outside of their own opinion, as they have the power to silence an upvoter.
I find downvotes useful only to have a kind of crowdsourced moderation for bordeline posts. But, if there was no upvote option, I could just report these (few) posts, and let the mod team decide.
I can see upvotes and downvotes in the Jerboa app, so I wouldn’t say the information is destroyed. Maybe not prominent enough or hidden in the interface you’re using?
Indeed, I’m using Connect because Jerboa bugged with an other instance (I don’t know if it has been fixed)
As a male whose penis has been slaughtered by down votes, this really his home! I really wish people would reserve the down vote for truly offensive content or insulting comments. Down voting just because it’s male anatomy is bad. It really reinforces (4) in your list above.
Then again, getting rid of the down vote could be misconstrued and cause confusion. Look at what happened when YouTube disabled the dislike count. People would go crazy and question the integrity and transparency of the community. We could end up curing our twisted ankle by cutting off our leg.
TL; DR: Love the up vote, hate the up voter.
I don’t think it’s good to remove downvotes. I prefer democracy in this case. Instead, why not create multiple communities that can cater to different individuals with different tastes?
People often use upvotes/downvotes for things they like or don’t like instead of for relevance, as they’re supposed to be used.
Consider cow paths / desire paths or the iPhone 4 “you’re holding it wrong” fiasco. In my opinion, rather than battling people / trying to stop them from using things in the way they’ve discovered is natural/efficient, embrace/accommodate/learn from them.
On a somewhat related note, I also agree with @Cephirux@lemmings.world: “why not create multiple communities that can cater to different individuals with different tastes?” It seem like “solving” the issue of guys posting on /c/gonewild getting downvoted by taking away downvotes is addressing the wrong problem. If a nontrivial portion of that community is signaling that it thinks male nudity deserves a downvote, find/create a welcoming community, or empower the moderators to view the members who are downvoting that content so they can be warned or blocked (if a community’s rules prohibit downvoting on the basis of gender, or whatever).
Separately, seeing something that has a score of -11 (+2 / -13) signals something different to me than something that has a score of 2 (+2). Taking away downvotes removes that information.
Agree, I downvote content I don’t want to see in communities I am in, and block communities I don’t want to see
This issue will perpetuate until communities are split
As a moderator of various communities, I strive to encourage inclusivity, rather than forcing folks into splintered various corners/communities.
One possible solution is to disallow voting by lemmings who are not subscribed to the community the post is made in. That will solve a lot of the uninitiated new users that are browsing “all” or “local” and don’t bother to read the intent/ rules of each community.
It’s worth having down votes.
I love being able to downvote comments like this which I don’t agree with 🙂
I think downvotes should be removed for now on this server. Based on all the things I’ve read in this thread it definitely seems like it’s hurting engagement. Getting downvoted for something you wrote already isn’t fun, but getting downvoted for your body is even more discouraging and cruel.
Upvoteds =okay
Downvote = input a reason why in the comments. Or a drop down list
As in life there are good and bad things why not allow downvotes and upvotes?, just like the two sides of a coin.
Not really the same coin though. Read the original post’s reasoning…
