I’ve spent over 25 years with Linux. With multiple distros and a lot of that with Gentoo and Arch. At work I specify Ubuntu or Debian, for simplicity and stability. I always used to use the minimal Ubuntu, because it was tiny with no frills. For quite a few years I managed a fleet of Gentoo systems across multiple customers - with Puppet. Those have quietly gone away. I’ve dallied with SuSE (all varieties), Mandrake, Mandriva, RedHat, Slackware, Yggdrassil and more.
Arch is surprisingly stable and being a rolling job there are no big jumps. When I replace one of our laptops, I simply clone the old one to it and crack on. I used to do the same with Gentoo - my Gentoo laptops went from an OpenRC job with dual Nokia N95 ppp connections around 2007 to through to around 2018 with systemd and decent wifi when I switched to Arch to allow the burns on my lap to heal. I still have a Gentoo VM running (amongst friends) on the esxi in my attic.
It was installed in 2006 according to some of the kernel config files. I left it for way too long and had to use git to make Portage advance forwards in time and fix around a decade of neglect. It would have been too easy to wipe and start again. It took about a fortnight to sort out. At one point I even fixed an issue following a forum post I made myself years ago.
I know this was a long comment and I’m only reacting to 1 word, so, I’m sorry in advance… But man, your mention of Mandrake really brought me back… I couldn’t for the life of me remember the distro I used to use all the time and this just clicked it all back into place. So much nostalgia, switching from like red hat 5 or 6 (not rhel, old plain red hat) to mandrake and being so happy.
After many years of using multiple devices and even servers with Archlinux installed it never broke because of an update (spoiler: I use systemd-boot instead of grub). If a system is to be used by a less experienced user, just install linux-lts Kernel instead.
Unstable does not mean it crashes/breaks often, it just means it does not guarantee to not bump to the newest upstream version and that it does not do backports.
This can be a problem when using unmaintaned software that does not like using a recent python/php.
This is also great because if you find a bug in a software you can report it to upstream directly. Debian maintainers only backport severe bugs, not every one of them. It can take over a year for new features to arrive - especially painful with applications like gimp, krita, blender, etc.
You can use debian-unstable of course, which is close to upstream as well.
I have never had Arch break during an update. I’ve never had it crash. I’ve never encountered an issue I couldn’t resolve, and for that matter I don’t really encounter issues. Usually the only problems are that I haven’t installed a service that would usually come standard with another OS, so I have to check the wiki, install, and configure something.
I see. I asked because “stable” means different things in different distros. In Debian it means that interfaces and functionality in one version doesn’t change. If I set up a script that interacts with the system in various ways, parsing output, using certain binaries in certain ways etc, I should be able to trust that it works the same year after year with upgrades within the same release. To some people this is important, to some people it isn’t.
I haven’t had Arch break during an update, but I always check the home page first, there are absolutely times my system would have broken during a blind update.
Arch doesn’t support blind updates - it explicitly tells you to always check the home page before an update in case “out-of-the-ordinary” user intervention is required. https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/System_maintenance
Basically, don’t run arch unless you’re willing to be a Linux system admin.
why arch and not something with more stable updates like debian?
I’ve spent over 25 years with Linux. With multiple distros and a lot of that with Gentoo and Arch. At work I specify Ubuntu or Debian, for simplicity and stability. I always used to use the minimal Ubuntu, because it was tiny with no frills. For quite a few years I managed a fleet of Gentoo systems across multiple customers - with Puppet. Those have quietly gone away. I’ve dallied with SuSE (all varieties), Mandrake, Mandriva, RedHat, Slackware, Yggdrassil and more.
Arch is surprisingly stable and being a rolling job there are no big jumps. When I replace one of our laptops, I simply clone the old one to it and crack on. I used to do the same with Gentoo - my Gentoo laptops went from an OpenRC job with dual Nokia N95 ppp connections around 2007 to through to around 2018 with systemd and decent wifi when I switched to Arch to allow the burns on my lap to heal. I still have a Gentoo VM running (amongst friends) on the esxi in my attic.
It was installed in 2006 according to some of the kernel config files. I left it for way too long and had to use git to make Portage advance forwards in time and fix around a decade of neglect. It would have been too easy to wipe and start again. It took about a fortnight to sort out. At one point I even fixed an issue following a forum post I made myself years ago.
Anyway, Arch is pretty stable.
I love when that happens lmao, it’s the best. Thank you past me.
I know this was a long comment and I’m only reacting to 1 word, so, I’m sorry in advance… But man, your mention of Mandrake really brought me back… I couldn’t for the life of me remember the distro I used to use all the time and this just clicked it all back into place. So much nostalgia, switching from like red hat 5 or 6 (not rhel, old plain red hat) to mandrake and being so happy.
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The story was divine retribution for blasphemy against arch
Debian is sometimes frustratingly out of date for daily apps like the web browser. I’d rather recommend something with a bit more updates like Mint.
Use flatpack for those then?
My dad’s PC has ESR with uBlock anyway, so whatever.
just use firefox flatpak and you’re good
Fuuuuck flatpack. Just run firefox nightly and you’ll be fine. Release 118.0a1 for me at the moment.
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What does this mean lol it feels vaguely threatening towards debian
So he can say his wife uses Arch (btw)
because Arch is more lightwheight than Debian, and also more stable than non-arch users think it is
After many years of using multiple devices and even servers with Archlinux installed it never broke because of an update (spoiler: I use systemd-boot instead of grub). If a system is to be used by a less experienced user, just install linux-lts Kernel instead.
Unstable does not mean it crashes/breaks often, it just means it does not guarantee to not bump to the newest upstream version and that it does not do backports. This can be a problem when using unmaintaned software that does not like using a recent python/php.
This is also great because if you find a bug in a software you can report it to upstream directly. Debian maintainers only backport severe bugs, not every one of them. It can take over a year for new features to arrive - especially painful with applications like gimp, krita, blender, etc. You can use debian-unstable of course, which is close to upstream as well.
Arch has rolling releases and is super stable.
How do you define “stable”?
“Ability to reboot without breaking a sweat”
I have never had Arch break during an update. I’ve never had it crash. I’ve never encountered an issue I couldn’t resolve, and for that matter I don’t really encounter issues. Usually the only problems are that I haven’t installed a service that would usually come standard with another OS, so I have to check the wiki, install, and configure something.
I see. I asked because “stable” means different things in different distros. In Debian it means that interfaces and functionality in one version doesn’t change. If I set up a script that interacts with the system in various ways, parsing output, using certain binaries in certain ways etc, I should be able to trust that it works the same year after year with upgrades within the same release. To some people this is important, to some people it isn’t.
I haven’t had Arch break during an update, but I always check the home page first, there are absolutely times my system would have broken during a blind update.
Arch doesn’t support blind updates - it explicitly tells you to always check the home page before an update in case “out-of-the-ordinary” user intervention is required. https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/System_maintenance
Basically, don’t run arch unless you’re willing to be a Linux system admin.
Low occurence of notable bugs during daily use.