A large part of this is about control. E-bikes are affordable, easy to use, and make it easy and cheaper for anyone, even poor people, to get around. The upper classes do not want the lower classes free on any level.
I LOVE my e-bike. I just got a tern NBD and I can finally ride on my own with a bike that fits me even when my disability flares up and I am at my most limited.
Now that my bike time has increased dramatically I have noticed aggression towards me has also increased. I’ve had people yell slurs out of their car windows, people rev threateningly behind me when they couldn’t pass, people speed around me through intersections, etc. Mostly I’ve noticed it from class traitors.
In my area especially people tie cars to freedom. Public transit is practically non-existent so kids and teenagers never ride a bus or a train and assume cars are the only way to get around. This seems to be especially strong among the lower and lower-middle classes, where people struggle to get and keep their cars, and seem to have an unhealthy emotional attachment to them.
If only there were a way to allow bikes on roads without directly impeding car traffic…
My country has the most ridiculous ebike rules. Speeds are limited, and it needs to function as a bike at all times… Among others.
This means even if you have one of those moped style ebikes, you have to unnecessarily carry around pedals (which would be impractical and awkward to use), despite having no intention of using them. Cops can just stop you and ask for them. If you can’t produce them, then you’re getting a ticket.
Stupid.
But I agree, I would liken it to the electric vehicle problems. Though fundamentally different due to several factors, the motivations are the same. People are making money continually from the use of automobiles. Automotive repair and maintenance shops, gas stations (or EV charging stations), all the way to road maintenance and such… It’s a monster of an industry. Nobody wants to stop that gravy train, so they keep fighting against these alternatives that save us lowly “poors” some money. (Only considered to be poor because we don’t drive dinosaur burning monster trucks everywhere, so we must be too poor to afford it)
those people want you out there spending your money (aka giving it to them), all the time. This doesn’t make them more money, so it’s bad.
Ask yourself this: if these e-bikes were extremely expensive and so expensive that only the rich could use them, would rich people complain?
The upper classes do not always explicitly think about things, like “oh, a Democrat is in power, seems like a great time to price gouge” or “hmm, all the other top leaders are firing people and price gouging since there’s a liberal in power, I should do it too” but these things do happen. Doing things to treat lower classes harshly isn’t always specifically talked about and planned, it’s just something those at the top do because they know others will as well and they also don’t believe the lower classes will recognize it and fight back politically, especially when the more religious party always favors the rich and religion helps increase class complacency.
I’m not against people making money or being successful, but there is a certain level of exploitation that goes on and it’s not always explicit and it’s not always planned out in clear language and it still happens
Of course no one would complain about e-bikes if no one was using e-bikes.
You’re unable to demonstrate a causal link between upper classes hating e-bikes and upper classes wanting to prevent the poors being free because there just isn’t one.
Honestly, I dislike being poor and I dislike wealthy people but making up ridiculous accusations like “they don’t want us to be free” is just plain silly.
Most wealthy people get their wealth from the labor of poor people. If poor people have easy lives, and need to work less hard for fun and to enjoy life, then they are less likely to work hard and wealthy people are less likely to stay wealthy.
I can’t demonstrate a causal link because it would be impossible to design a study really showing that.
To demonstrate anything, I’d have to get a group of wealthy people and determine which of them don’t want poor being free (and just asking them wouldn’t reveal that).
Then I’d have to determine which of the wealthy people hate e-bikes by asking them.
Then I would have to see if there was a correlation.
If you use Democrat versus Republican as a proxy for the first inquiry, it would be an easier but less approximate estimation.
In order try to show causation (and it would be a iffy showing), you would have to take wealthy people and measure their views of e-bikes, wait a week, divide them in three, and show them films of poor people. One film would show poor people disliking ebikes and being unhappy. One film would show poor people feeling free after using ebikes and having nicer lives. One would be a film of a a film that showed something as neutral as possible, like a show about how to do math problems. That wouldn’t actually be neutral, so if a budget allowed there would be a fourth group with no tv show at all. Then measure their views of e-bikes again and see if they changed.
I can’t prove any of this, but the wealthy people shown groups of poor people happy using e-bikes would probably have more negative views of e-bikes after on average because this is a control issue. E-bikes are cool and great for the planet and rich people who don’t like them only have 1 rational reason: wanting to maintain their lifestyle and concern that the lower classes finding more fun may reduce that. (And alcohol is fun and promoted because lower classes who use it a lot are more likely to have less intelligent children who will lack social mobility and can be exploited more easily.)
So yes, I don’t have a budget or inclination to prove this, but it’s not an impossible thing to prove nor is it irrational.
I don’t have the budget nor inclination to prove that the sky is purple, I’m just going to keep saying it because it makes me feel better about myself.
So you’re saying that my position is clearly evidently wrong, just like purple is not the color of the sky and therefore that’s clearly wrong.
I get it, but the easy lifestyles of the rich come from the suffering of the poor. The poor doing well is always a threat to that lifestyle and it’s naive to think the wealthy don’t often have a deep-seated gut reaction to anything that could threaten that. Even if you think it’s a stretch, it certainly isn’t as evidently wrong as a purple sky.
This just isn’t how wealthy people think though, even if it’s correct.
They think they became wealthy through hard work and good decisions. They think of themselves as benevolent and generous. They think they’re using their wealth to improve the lives if the have-nots.
“Uh oh, if the poor have more freedom and are happier, they may not work for such cheap wages collectively and it could affect my lifestyle. I better dislike the thing that makes their life easier.”
But the wealthy do in fact make choices and respond in gut ways that protect their lifestyles.
The wealthy often do think of themselves as generous and benevolent, but then they do not structurally change society to make life less oppressive. No one should be opposed to universal health care. No one should support criminalizing homelessness.
There are also ways to structurally change society to make life easier for the poor that don’t involve Marxism or incentivizing laziness. Classical economic theory and democracy can work together to make change but the poor are misled into voting for idiots because they are manipulated by the rich with religion and wedge issues and other clever tricks. Some of these rich people that deceive the poor with religion may even believe the lies of religion on some level. The logic of the mind of the average rich person may not be internally consistent, but they ultimately protect their interests.
A large part of this is about control. E-bikes are affordable, easy to use, and make it easy and cheaper for anyone, even poor people, to get around. The upper classes do not want the lower classes free on any level.
I LOVE my e-bike. I just got a tern NBD and I can finally ride on my own with a bike that fits me even when my disability flares up and I am at my most limited.
Now that my bike time has increased dramatically I have noticed aggression towards me has also increased. I’ve had people yell slurs out of their car windows, people rev threateningly behind me when they couldn’t pass, people speed around me through intersections, etc. Mostly I’ve noticed it from class traitors.
In my area especially people tie cars to freedom. Public transit is practically non-existent so kids and teenagers never ride a bus or a train and assume cars are the only way to get around. This seems to be especially strong among the lower and lower-middle classes, where people struggle to get and keep their cars, and seem to have an unhealthy emotional attachment to them.
If only there were a way to allow bikes on roads without directly impeding car traffic…
My country has the most ridiculous ebike rules. Speeds are limited, and it needs to function as a bike at all times… Among others.
This means even if you have one of those moped style ebikes, you have to unnecessarily carry around pedals (which would be impractical and awkward to use), despite having no intention of using them. Cops can just stop you and ask for them. If you can’t produce them, then you’re getting a ticket.
Stupid.
But I agree, I would liken it to the electric vehicle problems. Though fundamentally different due to several factors, the motivations are the same. People are making money continually from the use of automobiles. Automotive repair and maintenance shops, gas stations (or EV charging stations), all the way to road maintenance and such… It’s a monster of an industry. Nobody wants to stop that gravy train, so they keep fighting against these alternatives that save us lowly “poors” some money. (Only considered to be poor because we don’t drive dinosaur burning monster trucks everywhere, so we must be too poor to afford it)
those people want you out there spending your money (aka giving it to them), all the time. This doesn’t make them more money, so it’s bad.
Sorry this is just bullshit.
I don’t think the upper classes spend any time thinking about us at all, certainly not thinking about how to prevent us being “free”.
Ask yourself this: if these e-bikes were extremely expensive and so expensive that only the rich could use them, would rich people complain?
The upper classes do not always explicitly think about things, like “oh, a Democrat is in power, seems like a great time to price gouge” or “hmm, all the other top leaders are firing people and price gouging since there’s a liberal in power, I should do it too” but these things do happen. Doing things to treat lower classes harshly isn’t always specifically talked about and planned, it’s just something those at the top do because they know others will as well and they also don’t believe the lower classes will recognize it and fight back politically, especially when the more religious party always favors the rich and religion helps increase class complacency.
I’m not against people making money or being successful, but there is a certain level of exploitation that goes on and it’s not always explicit and it’s not always planned out in clear language and it still happens
This is just nonsensical.
Of course no one would complain about e-bikes if no one was using e-bikes.
You’re unable to demonstrate a causal link between upper classes hating e-bikes and upper classes wanting to prevent the poors being free because there just isn’t one.
Honestly, I dislike being poor and I dislike wealthy people but making up ridiculous accusations like “they don’t want us to be free” is just plain silly.
Most wealthy people get their wealth from the labor of poor people. If poor people have easy lives, and need to work less hard for fun and to enjoy life, then they are less likely to work hard and wealthy people are less likely to stay wealthy.
I can’t demonstrate a causal link because it would be impossible to design a study really showing that.
To demonstrate anything, I’d have to get a group of wealthy people and determine which of them don’t want poor being free (and just asking them wouldn’t reveal that).
Then I’d have to determine which of the wealthy people hate e-bikes by asking them.
Then I would have to see if there was a correlation.
If you use Democrat versus Republican as a proxy for the first inquiry, it would be an easier but less approximate estimation.
In order try to show causation (and it would be a iffy showing), you would have to take wealthy people and measure their views of e-bikes, wait a week, divide them in three, and show them films of poor people. One film would show poor people disliking ebikes and being unhappy. One film would show poor people feeling free after using ebikes and having nicer lives. One would be a film of a a film that showed something as neutral as possible, like a show about how to do math problems. That wouldn’t actually be neutral, so if a budget allowed there would be a fourth group with no tv show at all. Then measure their views of e-bikes again and see if they changed.
I can’t prove any of this, but the wealthy people shown groups of poor people happy using e-bikes would probably have more negative views of e-bikes after on average because this is a control issue. E-bikes are cool and great for the planet and rich people who don’t like them only have 1 rational reason: wanting to maintain their lifestyle and concern that the lower classes finding more fun may reduce that. (And alcohol is fun and promoted because lower classes who use it a lot are more likely to have less intelligent children who will lack social mobility and can be exploited more easily.)
So yes, I don’t have a budget or inclination to prove this, but it’s not an impossible thing to prove nor is it irrational.
I don’t have the budget nor inclination to prove that the sky is purple, I’m just going to keep saying it because it makes me feel better about myself.
So you’re saying that my position is clearly evidently wrong, just like purple is not the color of the sky and therefore that’s clearly wrong.
I get it, but the easy lifestyles of the rich come from the suffering of the poor. The poor doing well is always a threat to that lifestyle and it’s naive to think the wealthy don’t often have a deep-seated gut reaction to anything that could threaten that. Even if you think it’s a stretch, it certainly isn’t as evidently wrong as a purple sky.
This just isn’t how wealthy people think though, even if it’s correct.
They think they became wealthy through hard work and good decisions. They think of themselves as benevolent and generous. They think they’re using their wealth to improve the lives if the have-nots.
The wealthy probably don’t think:
“Uh oh, if the poor have more freedom and are happier, they may not work for such cheap wages collectively and it could affect my lifestyle. I better dislike the thing that makes their life easier.”
But the wealthy do in fact make choices and respond in gut ways that protect their lifestyles.
The wealthy often do think of themselves as generous and benevolent, but then they do not structurally change society to make life less oppressive. No one should be opposed to universal health care. No one should support criminalizing homelessness.
There are also ways to structurally change society to make life easier for the poor that don’t involve Marxism or incentivizing laziness. Classical economic theory and democracy can work together to make change but the poor are misled into voting for idiots because they are manipulated by the rich with religion and wedge issues and other clever tricks. Some of these rich people that deceive the poor with religion may even believe the lies of religion on some level. The logic of the mind of the average rich person may not be internally consistent, but they ultimately protect their interests.