Privacy for me has been incredibly rewarding, but when talking to people who haven’t been introduced to privacy, there are occasionally some moments that make it exhausting. One conversation in particular is one that I’ve had to go through dozens of times, and it always goes along these lines:
- Alice: Why is your phone in airplane mode? / What’s your phone number?
- Bob: I don’t have a carrier.
- Alice: But you have a phone.
- Bob: Yes.
- Alice: How do you not have a carrier?
- Bob: Phones can come without a carrier.
- Alice: What do you use it for?
- Bob: Everything you use yours for.
- Alice: How do you talk to people?
- Bob: Messaging apps over Wi-Fi.
- Alice: What if you don’t have Wi-Fi?
- Bob: Public Wi-Fi is everywhere. If I don’t have Wi-Fi, I likely don’t need to get in touch.
- Alice: What about emergencies?
- Bob: I can still contact emergency services.
Each time it happens, it has a unique flavor. One person accused me of lying and then fraud. I know people are just curious and don’t mean to be rude, but it makes me die a little inside every time someone asks. I’ve begun trying to sidestep the conversation entirely:
- Alice: Why is your phone in airplane mode?
- Bob: To save battery.
or:
- Alice: What’s your phone number?
- Bob: You can contact me with an app called Signal.
People seem to think that a phone automatically comes with a carrier and that it’ll stop working if you don’t have one. In reality, I’m saving hundreds of dollars per year while avoiding spam, fraud, breaches, surveillance, and being chronically online. People have a hard time coping with those who do things a little differently.
Playing devil’s advocate, I think it’s reasonable to have a load-up-minutes dumb phone, in case family dies or something and they don’t have access to the right app. That’s reasonable for close family to get upset about.
But you also don’t have to give that number out, heh.
I guess you could use Google Voice too, but that’s a bit… counterproductive unless you can sandbox the app.
I think it’s reasonable to have a load-up-minutes dumb phone
Those are becoming harder and harder to find. It’s hard to even find prepaid SIM cards. You now have to buy a voucher, create an account, and add it there, which activates the phone for the number of months the voucher is worth.
The sad truth is: you can’t talk about online privacy with normal people, they just won’t understand, if you try to explain it, they don’t care, simple as that! They’ll ignore anything you say and probably call you paranoid.
I generally keep my privacy habits to myself, but if someone asks I will tell them. It’s always better to try with a chance of getting them interested than not to try at all.
If you are an old programmer/geek young people will dismiss you even though they don’t even know what a folder is. They think they are IT experts because they can apply the latest instagram filters to their photos.
even though they don’t even know what a folder is
Someone once tried sharing a file with me by copy pasting the file path as if it were a URL
Jup. I made that conclusion too.
However one time two friends asked me about secure messengers and I reluctantly gave up that I used Signal. Since then everyone in my closer friend circle suddenly had Signal.
I have shared and exposed my close friends to it and they use signal with me
Totally wrong, skill issue.
Hello, wife?
Public wi-fi is definitely not everywhere, but yeah, either you take joy in sharing the knowledge you have or you end up being a bit rude to prevent being asked.
That’s going to be highly dependent on where you live. In Tokyo I easily got around without service for years since there was wifi at every train station and convenience store
Not to be overly pedantic on the internet but something’s availability being ‘dependent on where’ is definitionally ‘not everywhere.’
This is the scene from Parks and Rec where Ron Swanson has to eventually concede to getting a flip phone.
Technology can be adapted to everyone’s unique workflow.
Yours is a highly specialised one, that apparently works for you. Something i may try for a day or two, but am confident can never adapt to my work flow. (Only know 2 “free” WiFi spots in my town. One wants an account. The other wants a phone number)
Just keep in mind that the purpose of Airplane Mode is to prevent transmission. Your phone might still be receiving signals like GPS and WiFi SSIDs, which it can record to be transmitted later.
If you really don’t want to be tracked, leave it home.
Or own your device with a custom rom.
At least by turning on airplane mode they cannot track your location.
I’m someone who likes to walk the path less traveled in general. And in general I’ve found that people don’t respond well to such things. Especially when you explain them in dept. “Oh they choose to be different huh? => let’s ridicule them to cover up our own insecurities”
I’ve learned through trial, error and ridicule that people need to earn the right to an explanation to these matters.
I’m not gonna explain to Joe Shmoe that I use Linux because I’m doing my part in not giving the uprise in fascism the steady flow of data they want to increase their influence over the world.
They’d never understand. They gotta earn that by proving they care about the topic.
Yeah something like “Nun of yer business.” works well.
Never explain yourself to people who don’t want to hear the explanation.
For nicer people something like “Its probably boring to you.” can work well. If they insist they can’t complain. :D
Try not having a phone at all. Those conversations are fun
How are you even alive?!
Edit:
hundreds of dollars per year? That’s how much a carrier is over there??
I’m on a popular discount carrier, and it’s ~$30/month. One of the big three carriers will easily charge $100/month.
Most people will try to find a family plan that lowers the cost per user but it comes with big caveats like long-ish term contracts and some nasty fine-print. And if your carrier gets bought out, which is happening a lot, you never know what changes might get force fed to you
I’m paying over $100 per month for 3 lines. 4th line is $6 a month from Tello
How much data do you have at that price ? I’m paying 19€/month for 4 lines, 3 at 5€/month with 30Gb and one at 4€/month for 25Gb
Damn that’s cheap. I pay $50/month per person, for unlimited
That’s how much a carrier is over there??
Yes. The “poverty” option is $15/month, but plans can easily go up to $100 or more per month. Out of curiosity, how much are they charging across the pond?
Yeah as a Dane, (different from dutch above) mobile’s usually between €8-15, we do have plans that go higher, but 4G 30GB per month I figure is pretty survivable unless it’s your only net (mine’s 10GB :P)
Damn what the hell. I’m Dutch and I pay less than €12 euros. For that I get 100 call minutes/messages and 6 GB. Neither of which I ever really get close to. Calling is mostly just in case of emergency or when we need to align something right now. And data is always useful because I definitely do not have free wifi anywhere. Do you never leave a big city or something? If I slip with my bike on an icy road and break something in the middle of nowhere it’s kinda good to have some way of communicating.
Do you use your phone for navigation when driving? Any good app recommendations for navigating without cellular data?
*Cycling, but yes. I use CoMaps.
Ultimate Lemming:
- Cycles only, detects cars
- Uses CoMaps
- Uses Archlinux?
Im just jokin with ya 😉
Uses Archlinux?
secureblue :)
2 and 3 check out with me, but 1st point is public transport only. Preferably trains + trams.
Although buses have the advantage that I can sit in the front where I can see the road, and they also tend to be less illuminated so I can see outside at night.
I wish there were dark carriages. Coach buses will have a few blue LEDs near the floor, but a train has to come with full sun worth of light.My city has no public transport and if you tried to bike from one end to the other youd be killed crossing a 6 lane interstate lol. Not to mention it would take you 10 hours.
Which sucks but I would never use public transport even if we had it. But it does suck for those who cant afford cars.
but I would never use public transport even if we had it.
Why is that?
Its not for me, and im in a place out of town. Public transport wouldnt work here.
Public transport pretty much always works everywhere that isn’t a country town with like 5 people living there, and at that point you could just walk or ride around.
If there is low demand you can start with a small community bus, then increase the amount of buses and lines. Increase the size of the bus. Then maybe build a tram line etc…
I’m not saying your govenment will do this but it is almost always possible and faster, safer and more comfortable. Unless you really enjoy driving or prefer the privacy that it offers (debatable but still somewhat valid) in which case public transport and other viable alternatives to driving is still the only real way to reduce traffic for drivers.
Hopefully they can be overhauling UI to be much better. Would be cool if they made calls to wider community for UI people to come in to help out
I can second CoMaps. Works great when I’m somewhere and don’t have a local SIM.
Last time I checked, you can use GPS without carrier. GPS, and GNSS in general, is separate set of satellites. With cellular It’s just more precise since initial triangulation facilitated by cell towers. I recently was mid 5 hours flight and was able to see my location in google maps despite being in flight mode
Herewego works offline.
Yeah I dont get the comaps hype. It sucks anywhere that’s not a megalopolis. Here wego is far far better (for me).
Organic maps found on F Droid, download the state or area you want so is available offline. Won’t do traffic obviously, but gets you a to be.
I think CoMaps is the better choice.
CoMaps was founded in 2025 by former Organic Maps contributors. The Organic Maps codebase was forked due to concerns about the project’s governance, transparency, and the potential for shareholder profit at the expense of the community. The CoMaps project was created, focusing on privacy, performance and community.
Oh dang! I didn’t realize! Thanks for bringing that up good sir.
Privacy but using public WiFi?..
My devices distrust any network, and I always use a VPN. It’s obviously not my first choice, but it can still be done safe enough.
If the wifi has firewall blocking non web ports, do you have a solution for those cases?
Mullvad VPN and others have “obfuscation” methods to mask your traffic as regular web traffic. If those don’t work, I can always connect to a proxy or Tor as a plan B, or see if any other Wi-Fi networks are available. I’ve never had this be an issue, but there are certainly options available.
I don’t have mullvadvpn but I use a different vpn that has obfuscation and I have tried every single setting within it but somehow some networks can still detect the vpn no matter what I try. I am not sure how they can do this.
The threat of public wifi isn’t as big of a deal as it used to be. Before widespread VPNs and when internet traffic was unencrypted, anything you transmitted could be read by someone else on the network. But nowadays all an eavesdropper would see is what websites you’re connecting to (without a VPN) or the VPN if you are using one. Happy to be corrected if I’m mistaken though
So… I’m kind of in the same situation but mine is actually by mistake. Namely my SIM somehow (OK maybe I tinkered with eSIM a bit much… anyway) works for data and SMS but not for calls. I tried to fix it a bit… then honestly I like it without. Most of the calls I received are not important, nor urgent, and the few that are can leave a message or an SMS.
I stopped relying on my phone for calls entirely and I like it.
When I tell people it doesn’t work they just shrug it off and always find a way to contact me without making a big deal out of it.
I still like having a SIM though if only to
- check where I am on a path the first time I get there
- know if the person I’m meeting might be late
- warn if I’m late on the way to somewhere
but typically my phone works well entirely offline (e.g. I do not stream music, I have actual files on my phone) so I understand.
Honestly in your shoes I’d gauge the person, if they are potentially interesting enough to explore the topic with curiosity, I’d be honest. If I just want to move on because they seem obtuse I’d keep it to the minimum.
I achieve the same by disabling VoLTE and VoWiFi and setting the phone to LTE only in
*#*#4636#*#*.I love these service menus.
*#*#3646633#*#*has so much stuff to permanently screw up on some MediaTeks. But also some useful ones like selection of frequency bands, or even specific frequency and cell id.
But yeah, some settings can persist factory reset, and some may even be illegal like Tx tests (verified that it does transmit garbage on selected frequency with SDR) or IMEI change. Not all settings are on all devices, and they may even be partially broken.But yeah, these settings are don’t touch it for the most part (some are just huge lists of undocumented variables). Some don’t even seem to be resettable from the menu, I mean menus where you select one option, but by default they are unset. And the band mode selection on Moto G54 5G was… interesting. Rather than a nice selection menu, you can type in a number and select to add or remove it from a vector variable for 4G and 5G. Of course, nowhere does it list valid options or give a reset button.
And lastly a thing that serves me as a warning for future, when I was playing around with a leaked service program for some Realtek Ethernet adapter, I found out what eFuse memory is. There is no going back.
If you didn’t yet might want to play with Precursor
that first number singlehandedly helped me fix my mom’s phone. for context, 5g reception is quite mediocre where i live (especially if you’re on att, which my mom thankfully isn’t on). i went to network settings: no band toggle. i opened android’s advanced network settings menu: tried to gaslight me that this phone doesn’t have 4g (i know damn well it does). finally, that first number in your comment that opens
HiddenMenu, showed an entry called “NR debug” or something like that. and there it was: “Disable NR”. her phone is so much faster now, but idk how long that will persist since some phones change this shit behind your back after like a week.rant
to all the carriers and phone manufacturers: JUST GIVES US THE BUTTONS AND KNOBS. WE KNOW WHAT WE ARE DOING AND FORCING US ON YOUR INFERIOR NETWORK IS NOT GOING TO CONVINCE US IT’S BETTER. 5G/NR IS JUST FUNDAMENTALLY A BAD IDEA TO USE FOR CELLULAR TELEPHONY. i miss the days of lte for internet, gsm/cdma for calls, like it was in 2019 and earlier. modern phones and vintage phones worked alike, and volte was merely an optional enhancement.
5G is fine when comparing with 4G. Just a step up. My issue with them is rather whatever is going on with VoLTE and VoNR. 2G/3G just worked for phone calls, but now you only get that guaranteed by purchasing a phone directly from the carrier. Hell, some carriers even blacklist or whitelist devices just because.
And in Australia phones are now getting blocked completely, even if they worked with VoLTE because the carrier decided they didn’t.. Hugh Jeffrey also made a video about that.
My GrapheneOS phone is in airplane mode with cellular disabled and WiFi on.
I would not be comfortable not having mobile signal. Public WiFi is not going to cut it. Even a 0.00001% chance that I’d miss an important call from my partner is no bueno for me.
You can still purchase an external cellular hotspot, which will be more private than a phone carrier.
Would using an old phone as an external cellular hotspot be almost just as private as using an application specific device?
I just looked at the video and wondered that since there kinda expensive (also I wouldn’t be able to use the calyx hotspots since I don’t live in the US)
There’s a bigger security risk because of a larger attack surface, and naturally phones can collect a lot more data than hotspots, but it depends on your threat model.
I guess it could be a decent consideration if I can find a way to anonymously get a sim, not really much point otherwise.
Woo hoo! Something new to be paranoid about!
Even a 0.00001% chance that I’d miss an important call from my partner is no bueno for me.
Yikes. I can’t imagine having this level of anxiety about being out of contact.
I wouldn’t say it’s an anxiety, I’d say it’s a cost-benefit analysis I’ve done and decided that having cell service to catch a potential emergency call is more important to me than that one extra level of privacy like OP. Hell, I don’t want to miss a call even if it isn’t an emergency. I love my partner and want to talk to them any chance I can get; if they’re calling I want to answer.
I’m happy for you.
I think you dramatically overestimate both the cost of missing a call, and the benefit of not missing a call.
That said, it sure is convenient.
I think you drastically underestimate how much I love my partner.
No doubt.
I’m sure you’ve got multiple backup carriers and a satellite phone with you at all times to ensure that 99.99999 uptime, which translates to about 4 seconds of downtime a year.
But surely you weren’t exaggerating that part too.
Of course the %age I used was an exaggeration. Sorry, was this conversation being driven by the assumption that it wasn’t? I exaggerated to make my point.
And yet you decided to continue this thread by saying that you weren’t exaggerating.
I think you dramatically don’t understand how different other people are compared to you. Either that, or you lack empathy. I can’t think of any other reasons why you would distrust and dismiss their reasoning.
Hot takes here chunkystyles.
You really got me thinking about how some people just love each other so much that they would move mountains to make sure they don’t miss a single text message, and that’s completely normal, and not at all anxious behavior.
That missed text message or call could be the one where they call for help and you don’t get it and oh god what if I could have helped and oh god what if I didn’t get a chance to say goodbye?
Sure hope this person never drives or rides a bike anywhere. Probably fine if they do text and drive though. Because of the love.
You’re just driving my point home.
There’s really no reason for you to act like this. This kind of snark doesn’t endear you to anyone and it doesn’t help good faith conversion.
You’re just driving my point home.
Oh no.
there’s no reason for you to act like this.
Act like what?
Offering opinions in a public forum in support of the OP? Contradicting somebody making a silly claim that they can’t bear to be apart from their partner for 4 seconds a year?
Defensive when somebody tells me that I lack empathy?
I could probably have my phone on airplane mode all the time and no one would notice, I never pick up anyones calls to begin with.
I thought you had to have a phone number to use Signal.
Could have a voip phone number
I don’t know how to get one and shouldn’t have to, just to use an app like Signal. Why isn’t there one we can use without having to give them a phone #?
Just use matrix or xmpp. Signal is centralized. If they stop offering the service it’s gone forever.
There’s always a compromise between security and accessibility. Signal is nice in that it’s pretty secure while also being acceptable. More secure options aren’t very accessible to the average person.
Signal does not care about anyone who does not use android or ios and offers no official way to create an account without them. I wouldn’t call that accessible.
“Universally accessible” is not a synonym for “accessible.”
That seems like a better idea, but it 's the same old problem where you’d have to get the people you want to communicate with to switch from Signal to that.
SimpleX uses the Signal engine but requires no phone number. Also can awt up your own server (unlike Signal).
A search for that term brings up about 10 different things from crypto to herpes, nothing about a messaging app
Search for it in the Google play store.
Thanks! They also have a desktop and a terminal version, nice.
Last I checked (over a year ago) desktop was not great. IIRC there was no scroll bar.
Also getting noobs to join is tricky. You cannot use your native camera app to accept an invite (has to be via the SimpleX app) and it screws up invites via Facebook messenger (gets confused by the tracking suffix Facebook appends).
No. Not any more.
Edit: Sorry apparently you still need a number for the registration.
