Never happened to me. Like ever. And I’ve been on Linux (with occasional dual-booting whenever I’m in a position where I need windows–) for like 15 years now?
To be honest a lot of stuff people talk about seems to not happen to me and I think I might be exceedingly lucky or smth.
I do remember like, back in the day, having a LiveDVD around that had all sorts of ‘recovery tools’, among them one that was a one-click “grub is breaked, pls fix” thing.
I don’t remember if Windows updates would cause it but installing Windows second definitely would. Likewise, I think upgrading (from say Windows 7 to 10) might. Basically Windows is just like “this MBR? It’s actually mine, thanks.” With no option to not erase it.
EFI systems don’t use the MBR. Windows will default to using the whole disk if you don’t use the “advanced” button, but so will most linux distro installers.
Correct. But Windows is not changing the BIOS boot order. It will however change your EFI to make itself the default boot again, even if you configured it to use a separate ESP on a completely separate disk and the boot menu residing there. That’s by design as you can access your efi settings from a running system via software, while your chances to change your BIOS settings from outside the BIOS are slim to non-existent.
Also every BIOS not decades old can indead run with a hybrid setup of GPT formated disk with a small partiton to replace the MBR functionality.
2009 usually means you could indeed run it without an MBR: GPT format plus a very small (2MB) partition flagged to take over the functionality of containing a bootloader normally embedded in the MBR.
In fact old BIOS systems are more resilient. With a separate bootload on another disk, starting from that disk and then chainloading Windows (on another disk) or Linux works very stable as Windows is not trying to change the boot order of BIOS.
But Windows likes to also meddle with UEFI. Even with separate disks each with their own ESP it likes to change you EFI settings to make windows the default again instead of the boot menu on another disk (everything on the same single ESP is even worse, because then Windows can access and delete everything now Windows and you have to restore the boot loader/menu).
It can still happen. Your UEFI settings are accessible from the system. That’s part of the standard. So Windows sometimes rewrites these settings to make itself the default again.
That’s actually more safe. Windows can rewrite the UEFI setting to make itself the default again (although that’s of course easy to fix). But it can’t change your BIOS boot order.
When I booted into Windows 8.1 on my 2016 desktop computer, it immediately destroyed my boot loader for Ubuntu making it impossible to boot. I can’t confirm if it was BIOS or UEFI though. I had to use a convoluted technique to restore the boot loader for it to load Ubuntu afterwards each time I ran Windows.
To be honest a lot of stuff people talk about seems to not happen to me and I think I might be exceedingly lucky or smth.
Considering the people who seem to have issues are the ones who go out of their way to be all “Linux good/Microsoft bad” I’m going to go out on a limb here and assume most of it is total bullshit.
I’ve built half a dozen PC’s running windows 10 from scratch and not a single one of them has gotten messed up during the incredibly straightforward install/update process. It’s so dumb simple compared to virtually anything else I just don’t get how you could even have problems.
Listening to Windows problems on here from Linux users (I use both btw just to avoid the inevitable pedantry) is like watching a toddler throw a fit because he found out you have to peel a banana before you eat it, but their favorite fruit is an orange.
Considering the people who seem to have issues are the ones who go out of their way to be all “Linux good/Microsoft bad” I’m going to go out on a limb here and assume most of it is total bullshit.
Considering a simple google search of these terms brings up multiple people whose position on Linux and Microsoft is completely unknown to anyone else but themselves, having the exact problem OP is posting about, I’m gonna go out on a limb here and assume you’ve attached your identity to Microsoft and have to defend them for some reason.
I’ve been using Computers for nearly 30 years, and Windows has come a LONG way in that time. But lets not pretend windows doesn’t shit the bed sometimes. Hell a simple google search will reveal articles like this one and a large number of results of peoples PC’s having issues after windows update. Youtubers have made videos on windows update issues.
I had one of my PC’s straight up boot loop after a routine windows update and had to use a recovery to fix it, only for windows to auto update and re boot loop itself immediately afterwards. Most of the time, windows updates are fine, but sometimes they fuck shit up.
See your argument might hold water if “stuff people talk about” were something applicable only to Windows/Linux fights. (Windows can lick my fuzzy horse ass, btw—)
But like. People love to meme on how SystemD makes your computer hang up for a long while when shutting down? Never saw it happen. People meme on PulseAudio breaking? Never happened to me. Shit like that.
Never happened to me. Like ever. And I’ve been on Linux (with occasional dual-booting whenever I’m in a position where I need windows–) for like 15 years now?
To be honest a lot of stuff people talk about seems to not happen to me and I think I might be exceedingly lucky or smth.
My guess: the windows update fucked up Grub. Happened to me once or twice in 20 years of dual booting. It is also easily recoverable.
I do remember like, back in the day, having a LiveDVD around that had all sorts of ‘recovery tools’, among them one that was a one-click “grub is breaked, pls fix” thing.
Only had to use it once or twice though.
It tends to happen if you are not using the windows bootloader (GRUB for example) but if you use the windows bootloader it should be fine
Oh it just changes the bootloader? That’s not a big deal. Easy to fix from any live usb.
Also, for any distro hoppers out there… Do yourself a favour and put Ventoy on a USB. You can thank me later
With EFI systems this doesn’t matter. It was an issue with the legacy BIOS bootloader systems about a decade ago though.
I don’t remember if Windows updates would cause it but installing Windows second definitely would. Likewise, I think upgrading (from say Windows 7 to 10) might. Basically Windows is just like “this MBR? It’s actually mine, thanks.” With no option to not erase it.
EFI systems don’t use the MBR. Windows will default to using the whole disk if you don’t use the “advanced” button, but so will most linux distro installers.
Correct. But Windows is not changing the BIOS boot order. It will however change your EFI to make itself the default boot again, even if you configured it to use a separate ESP on a completely separate disk and the boot menu residing there. That’s by design as you can access your efi settings from a running system via software, while your chances to change your BIOS settings from outside the BIOS are slim to non-existent.
Also every BIOS not decades old can indead run with a hybrid setup of GPT formated disk with a small partiton to replace the MBR functionality.
I’m talking about BIOS, yeah, sorry if it was unclear. My 2009 CPU is still hanging on. Barely.
2009 usually means you could indeed run it without an MBR: GPT format plus a very small (2MB) partition flagged to take over the functionality of containing a bootloader normally embedded in the MBR.
Pretty sure it happened to me on UEFI as well
In fact old BIOS systems are more resilient. With a separate bootload on another disk, starting from that disk and then chainloading Windows (on another disk) or Linux works very stable as Windows is not trying to change the boot order of BIOS.
But Windows likes to also meddle with UEFI. Even with separate disks each with their own ESP it likes to change you EFI settings to make windows the default again instead of the boot menu on another disk (everything on the same single ESP is even worse, because then Windows can access and delete everything now Windows and you have to restore the boot loader/menu).
Same. Never happened to me either. But I usually make a sperate UEFI partition for Linux instead of relying on grub.
It can still happen. Your UEFI settings are accessible from the system. That’s part of the standard. So Windows sometimes rewrites these settings to make itself the default again.
That is true for me now, but for years I used dual boot on old BIOS based systems so idk /shrug
That’s actually more safe. Windows can rewrite the UEFI setting to make itself the default again (although that’s of course easy to fix). But it can’t change your BIOS boot order.
When I booted into Windows 8.1 on my 2016 desktop computer, it immediately destroyed my boot loader for Ubuntu making it impossible to boot. I can’t confirm if it was BIOS or UEFI though. I had to use a convoluted technique to restore the boot loader for it to load Ubuntu afterwards each time I ran Windows.
It never did so in updates for me, but assuming it did, UEFI stuff is fixable, just mess with the settings for five seconds :P
Considering the people who seem to have issues are the ones who go out of their way to be all “Linux good/Microsoft bad” I’m going to go out on a limb here and assume most of it is total bullshit.
I’ve built half a dozen PC’s running windows 10 from scratch and not a single one of them has gotten messed up during the incredibly straightforward install/update process. It’s so dumb simple compared to virtually anything else I just don’t get how you could even have problems.
Listening to Windows problems on here from Linux users (I use both btw just to avoid the inevitable pedantry) is like watching a toddler throw a fit because he found out you have to peel a banana before you eat it, but their favorite fruit is an orange.
Got to admit, that’s one hell of a response. Can be used in many situations.
Considering a simple google search of these terms brings up multiple people whose position on Linux and Microsoft is completely unknown to anyone else but themselves, having the exact problem OP is posting about, I’m gonna go out on a limb here and assume you’ve attached your identity to Microsoft and have to defend them for some reason.
I’ve been using Computers for nearly 30 years, and Windows has come a LONG way in that time. But lets not pretend windows doesn’t shit the bed sometimes. Hell a simple google search will reveal articles like this one and a large number of results of peoples PC’s having issues after windows update. Youtubers have made videos on windows update issues.
I had one of my PC’s straight up boot loop after a routine windows update and had to use a recovery to fix it, only for windows to auto update and re boot loop itself immediately afterwards. Most of the time, windows updates are fine, but sometimes they fuck shit up.
See your argument might hold water if “stuff people talk about” were something applicable only to Windows/Linux fights. (Windows can lick my fuzzy horse ass, btw—)
But like. People love to meme on how SystemD makes your computer hang up for a long while when shutting down? Never saw it happen. People meme on PulseAudio breaking? Never happened to me. Shit like that.
Neither happened to me. It only happens if you install windows, not when you’re upgrading it…
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Nope. you’re an unsympathetic “how nice for you” asshole talking over people who need to be heard to get the help they need. Don’t be that person.