freagle

LOL says the country responsible for the mass murder of 100 million people in India alone, developed systematized mass murder programs for all the people they subjugated, developed massive worldwide human trafficking networks primarily for sex and profit, and subjugated close to 80% of the world’s population.

Enemy within what? It has always been the case that the US will destroy its proxies, whether they win or lose the objective they were manipulated for

The ground can only absorb so much heat per unit of time before it becomes saturated. The geothermal field required for even 150MW is massive and insanely expensive. It requires something like hundreds of bore holes spread over 50 - 100 acres of land. It’s wild. The earth is the easy heat sink you think it is.

That is actually what they do for combined cycle gas turbines, they boil water using the heat from combustion of gas, then they condense the steam and turn a second turbine (hence combined cycle). They reuse that water again and again.

But to cool the steam down, the heat has to go somewhere. In CCG plants, that “somewhere” is a cooling tower full of water that evaporates.

The problem is that the steam needs to lose heat for it to condense. Where will the heat be dumped to? Your options are air, water, and earth. Air is a very inefficient heat dump. Earth is efficient at absorbing it, but it has a fixed carrying capacity per cubic meter. Water is efficient, transportable via pipelines, and can be expanded to meet increased demand without reengineering.

Water is drawn from a source and then evaporated. This is to cool down any large heat source rapidly. This is used both by combined-cycle natural gas power plants and by data centers. Computers turn 99.9% of the power they consume into heat, and data centers usually have about a 15% to 20% energy overhead. So powering 1MW of computers consumes about 1.2MW of power and produces 3.4M BTU per hour.

The water absorbs that heat and evaporates. Many data centers are built to consume water from massive underground aquifers. They drain the aquifer faster than it refills. So the water is being displaced, which means whereever you place a DC you are depleting the local water supply.

In addition, though, evaporation causes concentration of any solute. The evaporation tanks develop highly concentrated sludge of whatever was dissolved in the water when it was drawn from the aquifer. This concentration is usually high enough to be harmful to most life (very salty) or create harmful runaway biological processes (from phosphorus and nitrogen).

Average office workers aren’t involved in planning military first strikes in some of the most consequential campaigns in history. You’re stretching incredibly to try to paint the easily recognizable pattern of deliberate US war crimes as unwitting incompetence and it’s pretty gross

You are far too credulous. First strikes are some of the most deeply and throughly planned operations in a campaign. They knew exactly which apartments to go after, but we think they used a.i.?

Also, bombing schools is something the US has down in nearly every single campaign in the last 20 years and those were planned without a.i. So now we’re supposed to believe they used a totally different planning technique and got the exact same result? And then double tapped it?

The most undialectical shit post

Does it matter?

Yes officer, we simulated invading the house multiple times but we spent at least 3 times as much effort simulating how we would defend and against them coming out of their house to attack us.

At no point in this entire exchange I got an understandable explaination of why a regime (several, to take a broader stroke) decided at some point, after having suffered and endured, successfully, an aggression, that brutalizing their people was the way to go.

If that’s what you were looking for, you didn’t ask. I did offer you the explanation though - these are the conditions of siege. All victims of long-term sieges throughout history have had to repress the natural tendency that arises among the besieged population to throw wide the gates and let the barbarians in. That’s why sieges work. Most sieges in history that ended with a loss for the victims ended because the people inside the siege decided to end it, open the gates, collaborate with the enemy, and depose the leadership of the victims of the siege. DPRK is no different. It has been under siege by the West for 70 continuous years.

But more to the point, they don’t brutalize their people, they brutalize some of their people. It’s not like even the simple majority of Koreans in the North have suffered from brutality. And again, on a per capita basis, at worst they are 10% more carceral than the US is to its own people, with the US again have 200% more people per capita captured by its parole system under constant surveillance by the police having their wages garnished. And none of those US numbers include the brutality and incarceration of the borders. The US is far and away worse than DPRK in terms of quantity and percentage. The US is certainly less brutal to its prisoners, but again, you’re claiming that the DPRK is brutal to “its people”, which is an expansion of their actual brutality which is almost exclusively to their prisoners.

China and South Korea the main customers for food exports from NK. Food that is badly needed for their own population and often produced and harvested through forced prison labour, like the factory work

You’ve got to be deliberately blinding yourself to reality. Listen, DPRK was bombed to the literal stone age by the USA. Their people were literally living in caves. And now you’re telling me that the DPRK is exporting food. Do you not understand what a monumental achievement that is? You keep asking why the DPRK isn’t lifting its people up. Are you so committed to holding on to your false beliefs that you can’t see that the only way to become an exporter of food is to solve massive nation-wide challenges through the people? Estimates about farm work in DPRK put the total number of people engaged in farming between 25% and 50% of the total population. Do you really think the DPRK has a slave population that large? Yes, it has prison slave labor just like the US does. But the UN classifies DPRK farmers as slaves because the DPRK has compulsory labor laws. The vast majority of farmers in DPRK are employees or cooperative members. But because there is a law in DPRK that says everyone must work to rebuild the country and that refusal to work is grounds for imprisonment, the UN classifies a massive chunk of the country as slaves. Personally, I don’t think a compulsory labor law is the same as slavery, and I don’t think its unreasonable for a nation under siege that is literally fighting for the independent survival of its people to require that every able-bodied member of society work. We can disagree on that point without having to stoop the level of propagandists that claim the DPRK 10% slaves.

But seriously, how the hell do you not see that rebuilding the food system with its people, by its people, and for its people is literally lifting its people up? Where are you getting the idea that this is not exactly what you’re demanding?

But why can’t they spare just a little bit of money to actually improve the quality of life in the country?

This is where your understanding of the world is failing. The problem is not money. That’s not how any of this works. Do you think that the problem is the DPRK has a capital glut in the richest 1% - 10% and they’re just hoarding that money? Do you think the DPRK got nukes with money?!

The DPRK got nukes with labor. The people made the nukes, and they were paid for their labor. Because, again, the DPRK is under a total economic blockage. They literally cannot spend money to get things from the wider world. They can’t spend KPW on things, because no one accepts KPW outside of DPRK. The embargo is so bad that most day-to-day exchange is done in foreign currencies. That’s not the fault of the DPRK government, it’s literally the fault of Western financial institutions that have rules that will literally cut entire banking companies out of the world economy if they ever deal in KPW. Further, the reserves of foreign currency held by the government are, of necessity, stored in hugely elaborate shell companies with multiple levels of indirection and redundancy because the minute any Western financial institutions traces an account back to the DPRK they freeze the assets, seize them, and shut everything related to it down. And we’re talking about maybe $5B USD. Maybe. It’s likely a lot less. It’s essentially a strategic reserve to acquire emergency commodities to manage shortages whenever they occur, and they occur frequently.

The Korean people in the North rebuilt their entire country with labor, not money. They rebuilt their food system with labor. They rebuilt their medical system with labor. They rebuilt their education system with labor. They rebuilt their communications infrastructure with labor. None of that was because rich North Koreans invested money. It’s because the 10 million Koreans that survived the American onslaught set about to rebuild their country from literally rubble through the application of their labor at all levels.

To me that is the definition of “Truly live by their words and actually elevate the people”

Can we agree that is desirable

The problem is not that I disagree it’s desirable but that you disagree that they’ve been engaged in exactly that for their entire existence.

and would mean a great deal to every nation that is currently taking them as bad actors?

Don’t you understand yet that the fact that other nations see them as bad actors is literally a Western narrative enforced by economic warfare? Anyone who disagrees with this narrative is punished economically, from banks to professors to retailers to farmers to entire nations. Do you think North Korea cares enough about what a bunch of fascist genocidaires think of them to lower their defenses against enemies of the state both foreign and domestic? Your entire position rests on the idea that the global consensus of Western collaborators actually has a moral high ground and that their assessments are accurate and meaningful. They all watched the USA kill 10% of the Korean civilian population and then agreed to an infinite embargo to starve the rest of them into compliance or mass death.

Have a nice one

Right back atcha!

That’s a whole lot of victim blaming there.

As I said, DPRK is literally actively under siege. They face regular military drills from literally the largest and most powerful military in the entire world and you’re saying that by not allowing tourism without significant oppressive oversight they are somehow in the wrong? This is significant cognitive dissonance.

What is stopping them to reach out and strike open talks for peace?

Literally the fact that you think the USA is “dropping the mask” and “catching up to other brutal regimes”. DPRK has accurately assessed the USA behind the mask. They have a more accurate assessment than you clearly did.

One side has to be bigger and reach forward.

Are you serious right now? You think that a country that suffered over a million civilian casualties should “be the bigger” and try to make peace with a globe-spanning empire that has been continuously involved in regime change operations for 70 straight year and actively engaging in funding and supporting an ongoing genocide? Really? That’s your position?

Why keep an armed standoff that benefits nothing and no one besides a chosen few?

They are LITERALLY under an illegal collective punishment regime by the entire West. The West has been literally trying to starve and deprive their millions of citizens of life for decades continuously and unending and you are asking why they have to keep an armed standoff?

You’re going to have to work through this on your own and dismantle your deeply held beliefs about the world.

at what point is it legitimate for one figure to turn himself and his family in near demigods in order to take hold of a nation struggling against an invading foreign power

Is that what happened? Where did you get that information from? Was it from your direct experience living in North Korea? Perhaps you’ve read primary source materials written by North Koreans either inside North Korea or living in China or Russia? Because if what you’re telling me is that you believe this because the people that attacked Korea tell you it’s true, then I have to admit I don’t think you’ve got a firm enough grip on the situation to say that.

But even worse is that you don’t know what you’re comparing against. You’re comparing against the idealized “non-authoritarian” state of white middle class America and Western Europe. The better comparison would be South Korea. And South Korea was under a brutal totalitarian dictatorship for over 60% of the time that North Korea was, and South Korea is STILL an active US military base that runs regular simulations of literally invading North Korea with all of the materiel and soldiers needed to repeat history.

The Kims didn’t take hold of a struggling nation, they were literally leading a cadre of the people’s army. They were instrumental in the struggle for national liberation and then in the struggle for their survival against the genocidal Americans and then they were instrumental in the rebuilding of Korea and the securing of Korea against the dictatorship to the South that was hosting the brutal global war machine of the Americans.

Did the state use a cult of personality as part of their system of control? Absolutely. And we think it’s weird because we don’t think we do that. And yet, we teach all of our children that George Washington was a brave and noble fighter for the rights of people but never teach that he made his dentures by ripping teeth from the heads of his slaves. We teach all of our children that Thomas Jefferson was a leading architect of this great document to enshrine liberty for all men but we never teach that he ran literal rape farms, committed infanticide, raped his slaves as young as he could, and even kept a girl inside a sex hole in his bedroom, and even wanted to ban the transatlantic slave trade so this his “domestically produced” slaves would fetch higher prices. You are not immune from the charge of believing fanciful lies about people who committed acts of mass barbarism that not only do we still celebrate but literally have printed on the money we use every single day.

So at what point do we decide that the DPRK’s particular brand of personality cult delegitimizes them as a state? I would say only when you’d be willing to say that the US is an illegitimate that doesn’t deserve a standing army to protect itself.

proceed to establish a totalitarian authoritarian regime that lasts to this day and whose acts of violence and brutal control onto the people are very well documented?

Well, let’s see. The per-capita incarceration rate in the DRPK is estimated to be about the same as it is in the US. That’s an estimate because of course we have no documentation about it, and the estimate comes from satellite imagery, the testimony of exiles working with the West, and the standard magic pixie dust that Western NGOs use to make anti-Western state into a pariah. But even in thew worst estimates, the DPRK is only slightly worse than the US on prison rates, but the US has 2x as many people on parole as they do in prison, and parole is literally a condition of being actively monitored by police, often having your wages garnished by the state, etc.

I’m not aware of documented evidence of violent acts of control against the population by the DPRK. I’m aware of violent acts against prisoners, and they’re bad, but I’m not aware of the DPRK, for example, killing hundreds of people every year in police altercations, police riots beating hundreds or thousands of people, national guards firing into crowds of students, or bombing civilian fishing boats.

The DPRK established a state under siege. I don’t know if you’ve ever read through the history of sieges, but the point of a siege is to make the people in the city so desperate for food, water, medicine, and peace that they’re willing to kill their own leader and open the gates to the invading army. Under those conditions, the besieged state is managing violent threats from both the outside barbarians and its own people who crack under the pressure. Failure to neutralize the internal threat from the small percentage that would throw wide gates means the external threat comes in full force and kills the rest of your people. Is that kind and fair and just? No. Is that because the DPRK is a bad faith actor? No. It’s because the US literally decimated their population, poisoned their land, and then tried to starve them through a 70-year siege.

It was obviously a wrong thing to do but who had the means to oppose it? And the will, after a long war? Even more with the nuclear menace looming?

So you’re fine with saying that the US were barbaric genocidal maniacs and nuclear menaces with all of the power and the will to fight while everyone else in the world was really just seeking peace but you still think that the DPRK is the bad faith actor here?

Maybe talking it out will help you see the contradiction in your position. The US’s actions during and after WW2 are not irrelevant history that’s in the past that people should be able to just overcome now. It’s quite literally the living present and it informs every single conflict over the last 70 years.

Do you think The Taliban exist because Afghanistan just breeds backwards people? Do you think al-Qaeda exists because Islam is a bad religion? Do you think Kuwait exists because it’s a genuine nation-state that deserves autonomy? Do you think Iran has absolutely no reason to have a brutal repressive administration despite it being literally the only way it has been able to maintain its autonomy from the West over the last 200 years?

The DPRK is an incredible story of resistance, a literal beacon of hope in an otherwise dystopian doom spiral. They fought for their independence with a people’s army and were so thoroughly destroyed that by all rights they should have been defeated and dissolved, but instead they not only held their ground but they rebuilt their country from literal rubble to a modern state complete with indigenous food production, medicine, education, recreation, and a national defense strategy that has prevented any meddling from the West via overt or covert means, and very very few nations in the world can make that claim. And they did while only having 2 trading partners: China (who was literally the poorest country in the world for most of that time) and the USSR (who was also under total blockage by the US).

The Koreans in the North have, almost without peer, the most legitimate claim in the whole world to self defense and national integrity.

The line of “not a good faith agent” was crossed by Truman. The Korean War was an extreme gratuitous war of genocide against the Korean people. That you don’t know the history is the reason you believe what you believe, and that’s by design as the USA is very conspicuous in the way it never ever ever talks about the Korean war in ways that would educate people, because it was unconscionable.

The Korean Peninsula, which is the homeland of the Korean nation, was brutally occupied by Imperial Japan. Japan was violent, rapacious, and monstrously oppressive to the Korean nation. But, as all empires do, they create systems of control that attract the conpromisers from among the occupied people, and they had a bunch of Korean people in their administration of the Korean Peninsula who benefited from selling their own people out.

When Japan was defeated on WW2, the US decided that they should take over the Korean Peninsula from Japan and continue the occupation. This was based primarily on the US’s position that the USSR and China were enemies of the US, despite those countries having been allies in the war.

So before we go any further, we have to mark two lines being crossed by the USA that show it was a bad faith actor.

1 - it claimed to fighting with its allies but after the USSR destroyed 80% of the Nazi forces and took Berlin (West Berlin was in East Germany, btw) and after the Chinese pushed the Japanese out of China, the USA decided that actually they weren’t really allies and that the USSR and China needed to surrounded by the US military and contained with violence and endless proxy wars. Total betrayal.

2 - it claimed to be fighting for freedom and democracy but as soon as the war ended it actually changed its story to protecting capitalism at all costs and that meant it had no problem taking over the imperial colonies of other countries and trying maintain them as imperial colonies (Korea, Ryukyu Micronesia from Japan, Vietnam from the French, Indonesia from the Dutch). In fact, capitalism was so clearly the important thing for the US that they literally brutalized Indonesians who fought for independence until they were able to convince the US that they were anti-communist and then the US turned on the Dutch and threatened to pull all their redevelopment funding if they didn’t leave Indonesia. The US clearly was not above killing masses of people for its own selfish goals.

Ok. Back to Korea. So the US takes over for Imperial Japan and the Korean compradors start working with the racist, violent, rapacious, oppressive US occupation. The Koreans who wanted independence decided to fight a war of liberation against the occupier and that also meant a civil war against the Koreans who benefited from being vassals of the empire.

The US responded by literally bombing every single building they could find in the entire country above an imaginary line they had drawn and gotten the Soviets to concede to accept. The Koreans never accepted such a line, but like Yosemite Sam, the US decided that line was real. They then proceeded to drop napalm on the entire country north of the imaginary line and the Koreans living there had to live in caves because they had no buildings to hide in. The US killed over a million civilians, nearly 10% of the entire Korean nation.

The US then proceeded to tell everyone this was about democracy and freedom while establishing a military dictatorship to administer South Korea that ran for 40 years before the US finally allowed the South to have a democracy.

So yes, the Koreans in the North have a massive military defense set up to defend itself, and for good reason. It will not allow another rapacious genocidal invasion like the Japanese or the Americans ever again. The Koreans in the North have recovered from literally total devastation without any help from 90% of the world’s economic actors because after the US bombed them back to the stone age they then established a full trade blockade and would not allow anyone to trade with them at all, something that still stands today. That blockade is not punishment for recent actions, it is punishment for trying to exist independently of the US’s goals of total dominance and hegemony.

So when do we decide that the USA is a bad faith agent? Where is the line when we collectively agree that the US has never been trustworthy, has never been honest, has never been interested in peace nor liberty nor democracy, but has instead lied, cheated, murdered, and genocided with zero consequences for 250 years?

I think that line was crossed a long time ago, and I think the non-white world has collectively seen the US as a bad faith actor for a long time. Hopefully more of the EuroCentric world starts to see it, too, and comes to the defense of the victims before the US plunges all of us into a massive dark ages.

The joint drills in question are literally simulations of invading the North, and the simulation is essentially a game of chicken where the US and its occupied territories act like they’re going to invade but say “no no. It’s just an exercise” and the North has to respond every single time by preparing for it as if it’s a real invasion because it is essentially one real-time order away from being an actual invasion

Yes, that’s why missile defense is part of nuclear strategy and has been for decades. MAD keeps everyone safe. The US has been trying to figure out a way to win a nuclear war for decades, because if they can, they can do to the rest of the world what they did to Japan.

but what do I know

Do you know that between 90% and and 95% of people in China own the homes they live in? Because that sort of changes everything about the conversation.

The CPC incentivized the creation of ghost cities as part of their plan to get ahead of housing demand, which seems to have been successful considering the ghost cities have filled up.

Yes, there have been people in China that wanted to use housing as a speculative investment, which is what American economists believe everyone should do. But the CPC doesn’t govern based on what’s most profitable for a small group of speculative investors, so they have been popping their own housing bubble and both American economists and Chinese speculators go to Western media and proclaim how broken the Chinese economy is.

And still, 90% to 95% of Chinese people own the homes they live in.

The use of property as investment in China, last I heard on the subject, is largely because of the lack of other investment vehicles as well.

Makes sense, right, since they’re a country run by a communist party? The reason there aren’t asset classes to invest in for retail investors in China is because China isn’t focused on creating a speculative investment market to produce a path from working class to bourgeoisie through passive income, pump-and-dump schemes, insider trading, or dumb luck.

They’re focused on ending poverty and meeting the needs of a billion people.

Cool story, roofus.

In China, housing investment is fueled by middle-aged households saving for retirement or for their children’s marriage. Home ownership has always played a prominent role in the Chinese society, and is remarkably high, standing at roughly 90 percent compared to about 65 percent in the United States

Source: https://dash.harvard.edu/server/api/core/bitstreams/d07a648e-b821-4485-b59f-09f11679e500/content

American Economic Association’s Journal of Economic Perspectives

You mean that’s not what Western media is accentuating about what some citizens are saying? China has a billion people with home ownerships rates that high. But even that high, it’s still millions of people who don’t own their homes, and most of them are in the big cities. It’s not hard to find people who will complain about the cost of housing so you can write a news article that pretends that this is a problem for all citizens.

It’s not. It’s far and away a better situation in China than in the US.

They have a nationwide homeownership rate between 90% and 95%. I think they’re doing just fine.

The large majority of Chinese ghost cities became populated, because that’s how long term planning works